Do States care about point creep?

[Bobbyboe]

This thought came into my head a few days ago when I saw Wyoming propose a shift to 90-10 res vs non res allocation. This shift will certainly cause creep to increase significantly in many, if not most LQ areas. Other States, such as Utah, Colorado and Nevada are much worse. So, my question is, do the States, or individuals involved in decision making really care? Has anyone, anywhere, heard talk at a meaningful level, about how to curb or stop point creep? It seems that points were created in good faith to distribute tags in the fairest way possible. Now, it is very clear that the system does not work as intended.

 

[3forks]

I think states care more about the fallout they would receive from trying to do something that would actually address the issue of point creep to begin with.

 

[Htm84]

The only real way to stop
Point creep is to get rid of point systems. But that’s not gonna happen. There’s nothing fair about points. A true lottery is the only fair way.

 

[Bobbyboe]

I'm aware of that. Id like to know if any meaningful conversation is being had.

 

[canyonhunter47]

They should because it means NR’s will bail out of their state and won’t buy their licenses that are prerequisite to apply or pay app fees

 

[theleo91386]

They care but there's nothing they can do about it. Where there's a points system there's point creep, the only way to get rid of point creep is to get rid of the point system, do that and everyone with a ton of points will scream bloody murder.

 

[Quin]

I suspect there is too much revenue involved with points right now to get states to even consider stopping point systems now. Now how long that revenue cash cow continues is anyones guess.

 

[Rich M]

Point creep is cause demand far exceeds supply. So the guy who got there 10 yrs ago and said this hunt is worth waiting 10 years for should hand over his points and go to a pure random lottery cause a handful of exuberant fellows do not want to wait and need to have the opportunity to go now.

You guys crack me up. Some folks have been accused of working the point system by collecting points towards a given hunt.

What's your best alternative? We get a number at the Deli counter, get mad when the guys who sat down after us at the restaurant get served first, and sign in on a computer at Drs, hospitals, and motor vehicle to get served in order of arrival.

What makes you guys so special that the folks who have been waiting years should just hand the keys to the system over for an overhaul that will screw up x years of waiting?

 

[fatlander]

Option 1.)

Stop allowing any points to be purchased and have any points on the books serve as bonus points. Problem solved.
————————-

Option 2.)

The real issue is the Revenue lost to states. They’ve become dependent on the cash cow that is points.

The only way to keep that rolling would have a bonus point system but doesn’t allow it to square points.

Have a draw like NM that you list 3 choices that will burn all your points if you draw any of the 3. Then have leftovers available for sale after the draw. OR go with my first suggestion and raise license/tag/permit prices to offset the burn from losing points. Pretty simple fix.

Preference points don’t work.


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[LostArra]

Stop allowing any points to be purchased and have any points on the books serve as bonus points. Problem solved. Revenue lost to states is the problem. They’ve become dependent on the cash cow that is points.


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Thanks. Saved me some typing.

 

[jmcd22]

Option 1.)

Stop allowing any points to be purchased and have any points on the books serve as bonus points. Problem solved.
————————-

Option 2.)

The real issue is the Revenue lost to states. They’ve become dependent on the cash cow that is points.

The only way to keep that rolling would have a bonus point system but doesn’t allow it to square points.

Have a draw like NM that you list 3 choices that will burn all your points if you draw any of the 3. Then have leftovers available for sale after the draw. OR go with my first suggestion and raise license/tag/permit prices to offset the burn from losing points. Pretty simple fix.

Preference points don’t work.


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Just so this gets posted again...I might repost it again depending on how long this thread goes

 

[Bobbyboe]

Point creep is cause demand far exceeds supply. So the guy who got there 10 yrs ago and said this hunt is worth waiting 10 years for should hand over his points and go to a pure random lottery cause a handful of exuberant fellows do not want to wait and need to have the opportunity to go now.

You guys crack me up. Some folks have been accused of working the point system by collecting points towards a given hunt.

What's your best alternative? We get a number at the Deli counter, get mad when the guys who sat down after us at the restaurant get served first, and sign in on a computer at Drs, hospitals, and motor vehicle to get served in order of arrival.

What makes you guys so special that the folks who have been waiting years should just hand the keys to the system over for an overhaul that will screw up x years of waiting?

I don't feel anymore special than the next guy. I'll work around how the system is currently set up. That being said, I am looking at the current system as a realist. Its pretty easy to see that in 20 years from now most units, including general region hunts, will be unattainable for people getting in on the ground floor. Yes, theoretically its fair, but we all know its not sustainable. I personally like the New Mexico system, but that's not the point of this post.

I'll be curious to see if states are talking about it, or are in the process of making a shift. I applied for Arizona yesterday and their web site clearly states that points have no value. You actually have to acknowledge before applying. Makes me wonder if this is the beginning of a shift......

 

[coues craze]

If you apply in a state with true preference points, and you are behind the curve, the reality is you may die before ever catching up to the top units example being Colorado. Points do matter in AZ in the first pass since those tags are given to the highest point holders, the second pass is random so you could technically draw a quality tag having zero points. WY also has a hybrid system where a percentage of tags are given to the highest point holders and the rest go into a random drawing. To your original question I’m not sure what states have had meaningful discussion of trying to curb point creep.

 

[FLAK]

I've only built points in one state, and I aint tellin which one.
The rest of em can KMCA with getting in that game.
What a scam

 

[LostArra]

Preference points could have some value if they were transferable to a direct heir (child). That way they may actually get used.

 

[Trial153]

No

 

[5MilesBack]

Why should the state care? There are so many people in the backlog of points that they're going to sell those tags regardless. For the top units in CO they could stop all new applicants, and stop awarding points, and they'd still have guys behind the points curve 20 years from now. There is just way more demand than there are premium unit tags. But ignore those few units and there are plenty of other options out there. I started hunting CO in 1980 and have yet to even think about hunting one of those top tier units. Too many other realistic options to think about and plan for than to worry about those.

 

[tt_johnsclist]

I want to be in the business of selling rain checks to guys that will pay me to wait in my line! The more creep the better, I can sell rain checks for a product I will never have to deliver!!


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[Quin]

Point creep is cause demand far exceeds supply. So the guy who got there 10 yrs ago and said this hunt is worth waiting 10 years for should hand over his points and go to a pure random lottery cause a handful of exuberant fellows do not want to wait and need to have the opportunity to go now.

You guys crack me up. Some folks have been accused of working the point system by collecting points towards a given hunt.

What's your best alternative? We get a number at the Deli counter, get mad when the guys who sat down after us at the restaurant get served first, and sign in on a computer at Drs, hospitals, and motor vehicle to get served in order of arrival.

What makes you guys so special that the folks who have been waiting years should just hand the keys to the system over for an overhaul that will screw up x years of waiting?

One of the issues with point systems is that some people weren't around to get in line 10 or 20 years ago. I don't mean didn't have the foresight to get in, I mean weren't alive. For example a 1 year old kid. That 10 point tag you mention may be 15 points before that kid can even start applying for points. Extrapolate that out and he'll draw that tag at 30 points in 2060 or so when he's in his 40s... and thats with only a half point a year creep.

I think point systems have the potential to become a real hindrance to new hunter recruitment/retainment at some point in the future (if they don't implode first...)

 

[Rmauch20]

No. They care about money.