Doubting your level?

[SDHNTR]

I was shooting yesterday on some angles and was really fighting my level. With the bubble centered, my reticle was canted. I really wanted to crank it back to level, but that would throw my bubble off every time. I was really fighting it. I know it was all set up properly with everything all plumb to each other on level earth.

What do you do in this situation? Always trust the level? Even when it feels and looks wrong at the reticle?

 

[lintond]

It’s amazing how deceptive “level” can be when using your eye vs what your level says. Trust the level because your eyeball will lead you astray.


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[XLR]

Check the level with the reticle, then check it again, then always trust the level! I like to check my level on my scope with the level in my chassis and then I can use them both as references when I am in the field!

 

[SDHNTR]

It’s true to the reticle on a plumb Bob 100%

 

[ChrisAU]

My reticle absolutely appears canted when it is level. I discovered this by shooting 22LR at extended ranges. All plumb reticles look canted to the left to my eye, causing me to cant the rifle right. When dialing double digit MILs at 300+ yards with a 22LR it causes me to put expected size groups well to the right of POA.

 

[nobody]

Could be a third axis issue. Are you shooting uphill or downhill when you experience this?

What you're describing sounds EXACTLY like what is talked about in this thread, may wanna read through and see if it answers your question maybe??

bubble level + reticle/rifle cant

Took a break from glassing midday yesterday and did some dry fires to pass the time. I was on a steep angle looking down dry firing to a rock about 500 yards away (lying down gun was perfectly still). I had to really cant my reticle to get the bubble level. I checked my scope when I got home and...

rokslide.com

 

[blacktail sniper]

If your reticle is canted when the bubble is level, then it’s not set-up correctly.

could it also be the way he holds the rifle? I found that out when i was mounting scope guyn leveld scope level to my eye reticle canted learned it was me and how i was holding the rifle

 

[wapitibob]

Could be a third axis issue. Are you shooting uphill or downhill when you experience this?

What you're describing sounds EXACTLY like what is talked about in this thread, may wanna read through and see if it answers your question maybe??

bubble level + reticle/rifle cant

Took a break from glassing midday yesterday and did some dry fires to pass the time. I was on a steep angle looking down dry firing to a rock about 500 yards away (lying down gun was perfectly still). I had to really cant my reticle to get the bubble level. I checked my scope when I got home and...

rokslide.com

Yep, no different than on a bow. The rifle needs to be level along the barrel axis, and the scope level 90 deg to that, before you set the scope level, level.

 

[SDHNTR]

It’s true to the reticle on a plumb Bob 100%

My reticle absolutely appears canted when it is level. I discovered this by shooting 22LR at extended ranges. All plumb reticles look canted to the left to my eye, causing me to cant the rifle right. When dialing double digit MILs at 300+ yards with a 22LR it causes me to put expected size groups well to the right of POA.

Exact same here. So you just force yourself to shoot with what looks like a reticle twisted off to the left? Counterclockwise?

 

[ChrisAU]

It’s true to the reticle on a plumb Bob 100

Exact same here. So you just force yourself to shoot with what looks like a reticle twisted off to the left? Counterclockwise?

That's right. Its slight, and I don't even notice the need for correction with a centerfire dialing out to 3-4 MILs. But when dialing 15-20 MILs with the rimfire I am moving the POA off axis much more and makes it much more noticeable. I'm not shooting a centerfire at an animal at a distance that it would matter. But for competition use I've moved to using a SendIt level with a brand built ocular housing. If the light is green I don't care what the reticle looks like.

 

[ID_Matt]

Good point @TK-421

A good upright head position makes a world of difference as far as leveling the gun and staying level. Partly why I am starting to lean towards higher mounts that encourage a guy to stay more upright.

 

[Macintosh]

^^upright head position shown above is way better for your eyes to work right, but for me at least is simply not possible with a sporter-style stock. For me that 100% requires much higher rings and an adjustable comb.

 

[parshal]

My reticle looks canted when the rifle is level. I know if the reticle looks level my rifle is not.

If the reticle and rifle are leveled properly ignore what the reticle looks like and trust the bubble.

 

[wind gypsy]

It sounds more like his perception of level isn't matching up with reality.

That was my assumption on this thread and the other one a little while back on this topic. Seems or looks canted doesn't mean actually canted. That's why there's a level there in the first place.

 

[Fire_9]

I have started leveling my level/reticle to my natural hold vs leveling off the action. I feel that I have a much high probability of shooting with a level reticle this way in case I forget to check my level

 

[ID_Matt]

I have started leveling my level/reticle to my natural hold vs leveling off the action. I feel that I have a much high probability of shooting with a level reticle this way in case I forget to check my level

That may work for range shooting but awkward shooting positions in a hunting situation such as shooting on a steep side hill or off a branch don't always lead to a natural hold. I think checking a level with a bubble is going to be exponentially higher probability of a level shot than going off feel. Just make checking the bubble part of your shot process.

 

[Fire_9]

That may work for range shooting but awkward shooting positions in a hunting situation such as shooting on a steep side hill or off a branch don't always lead to a natural hold. I think checking a level with a bubble is going to be exponentially higher probability of a level shot than going off feel. Just make checking the bubble part of your shot process.

Would you rather level it to an unnatural hold? Yes checking it every single time is the best answer but in the real world that doesn’t always happen. Leveling your scope level/reticle to your natural hold gives you the best possible chance to shoot with plump reticle if you forget to check your bubble

 

[Marbles]

Would you rather level it to an unnatural hold? Yes checking it every single time is the best answer but in the real world that doesn’t always happen. Leveling your scope level/reticle to your natural hold gives you the best possible chance to shoot with plump reticle if you forget to check your bubble

Edit: Well, on second though, the below is not fully true. If one is completely consistent, it would make no difference. As I said it, I will leave it up though. End Edit

If the reticle/erector is not true to the action, then holding/dialing at range you will be moving the cross hairs on two planes rather than one.

Will it be enough to matter? That depends. If you train to the distances you want and don't have an issue, then do what works best for you. However, from a theoretical standpoint, it is better to learn to hold the rifle properly than to introduce error into the system to compensate for poor form.

 

[ID_Matt]

Would you rather level it to an unnatural hold? Yes checking it every single time is the best answer but in the real world that doesn’t always happen. Leveling your scope level/reticle to your natural hold gives you the best possible chance to shoot with plump reticle if you forget to check your bubble

I'd rather reposition and get comfortable with a level reticle. I can't count how many times I have gotten behind the gun on a sidehill or awkward position and thought it was comfortable, then looked at my level and it was absolutely buried to one side. A guy might feel comfortable, but that does not mean the gun is level.

 

[Fire_9]

Edit: Well, on second though, the below is not fully true. If one is completely consistent, it would make no difference. As I said it, I will leave it up though. End Edit

If the reticle/erector is not true to the action, then holding/dialing at range you will be moving the cross hairs on two planes rather than one.

Will it be enough to matter? That depends. If you train to the distances you want and don't have an issue, then do what works best for you. However, from a theoretical standpoint, it is better to learn to hold the rifle properly than to introduce error into the system to compensate for poor form.

You’re not wrong that it will introduce some error but in my opinion it is negligible. Especially when compared to shooting with a canted reticle