Doubting your level?

[wind gypsy]

Error from reticle/tracking out of plumb but with scope mounted perfectly plumb with action > error from a scope being mounted out of plumb with action but shot with reticle plumb.

I'd say it may make sense to have the reticle plumb with how you naturally hold the rifle (if slightly canted) IF you're not going to use a level. If you're using a level, might as well try to get it all right. That said, i don't put a ton of effort into verifying a scope is perfectly plumb with rifle but rather make sure the level is good when the reticle is plumb and that it tracks plumb from there.

 

[Fire_9]

I'd rather reposition and get comfortable with a level reticle. I can't count how many times I have gotten behind the gun on a sidehill or awkward position and thought it was comfortable, then looked at my level and it was absolutely buried to one side. A guy might feel comfortable, but that does not mean the gun is level.

I actually think you’re missing my point. You absolutely need to shoot with a level reticle and I’m a firm believer in having one to reference. I think every rifle that is setup to shoot distance should have one. But if you shoulder your rifle to what feels comfortable and is repeatable, then level your reticle to the fall of gravity, you will have a better chance of shooting with a level reticle when the time comes. If you’re constantly fighting your rifle to get it level, you have a problem. You can either train your body to hold the rifle different or you can simple rotate your scope to accommodate your hold. Frank Galli has talked about this a fair amount on snipers hide and to me, this approach makes the most sense

 

[Fire_9]

Error from reticle/tracking out of plumb but with scope mounted perfectly plumb with action > error from a scope being mounted out of plumb with action but shot with reticle plumb.

I'd say it may make sense to have the reticle plumb with how you naturally hold the rifle (if slightly canted) IF you're not going to use a level. If you're using a level, might as well try to get it all right. That said, i don't put a ton of effort into verifying a scope is perfectly plumb with rifle but rather make sure the level is good when the reticle is plumb and that it tracks plumb from there.

Yep. I don’t have enough time to invest in retraining my slower than average brain so I take the easy way out and level to my hold. It’s worked for me but other people’s results may vary

 

[ID_Matt]

I actually think you’re missing my point. You absolutely need to shoot with a level reticle and I’m a firm believer in having one to reference. I think every rifle that is setup to shoot distance should have one. But if you shoulder your rifle to what feels comfortable and is repeatable, then level your reticle to the fall of gravity, you will have a better chance of shooting with a level reticle when the time comes. If you’re constantly fighting your rifle to get it level, you have a problem. You can either train your body to hold the rifle different or you can simple rotate your scope to accommodate your hold. Frank Galli has talked about this a fair amount on snipers hide and to me, this approach makes the most sense

OK. I was missing the point. I have not read up a ton on that, but will. I thought you meant no bubble level at all and just going off of feel.

 

[Juan_ID]

I actually think you’re missing my point. You absolutely need to shoot with a level reticle and I’m a firm believer in having one to reference. I think every rifle that is setup to shoot distance should have one. But if you shoulder your rifle to what feels comfortable and is repeatable, then level your reticle to the fall of gravity, you will have a better chance of shooting with a level reticle when the time comes. If you’re constantly fighting your rifle to get it level, you have a problem. You can either train your body to hold the rifle different or you can simple rotate your scope to accommodate your hold. Frank Galli has talked about this a fair amount on snipers hide and to me, this approach makes the most sense

This is interesting, I have talked about this at length with a couple guys but in regards to archery and the sight levels. Opinions are strong on both sides it seems, some for leveling while the bow is in hand and some for leveling while the bow is level in a vice.

I know this weekend I had a hard time trusting my level, it always appeared to be canted to the left. I plan to double check my reticle and level again just to see if it’s off or not. I always just used to level off the turret cap but as of late have been using a plumb line to get the crossshairs “level” then adjusting the scope level to match.

 

[9.1]

I was shooting yesterday on some angles and was really fighting my level. With the bubble centered, my reticle was canted. I really wanted to crank it back to level, but that would throw my bubble off every time. I was really fighting it. I know it was all set up properly with everything all plumb to each other on level earth.

What do you do in this situation? Always trust the level? Even when it feels and looks wrong at the reticle?

I'd check to see if I had a loose screw somewhere.

 

[Fire_9]

This is interesting, I have talked about this at length with a couple guys but in regards to archery and the sight levels. Opinions are strong on both sides it seems, some for leveling while the bow is in hand and some for leveling while the bow is level in a vice.

I know this weekend I had a hard time trusting my level, it always appeared to be canted to the left. I plan to double check my reticle and level again just to see if it’s off or not. I always just used to level off the turret cap but as of late have been using a plumb line to get the crossshairs “level” then adjusting the scope level to match.

I’ve read that if you’re going to level off anything on the scope, level the flat on the bottom of the scope and not the turret cap.

 

[Fire_9]

OK. I was missing the point. I have not read up a ton on that, but will. I thought you meant no bubble level at all and just going off of feel.

I really struggle at explaining things clearly sometimes. All of my rifles setup to spin turrets have a level on the scope

 

[SDHNTR]

I’ve read that if you’re going to level off anything on the scope, level the flat on the bottom of the scope and not the turret cap.

We’re talking about two different things. We aren’t talking about leveling a scope during set up or installation of the scope. But since you brought it up… Leveling off a turret cap doesn’t work well since the cap is threaded. It’s never going to be level. Level to a plumb Bob.

We are talking about an extra bubble level that stays on the rifle. Something that verifies the gun is level in the field, prior to the shot.

The point here being, even with step one properly set up, you can still have issues with the reticle not visually appearing level when your bubble says it is. Due to head position as shown in pics above.

 

[SDHNTR]

For whoever needs to see this.

View attachment 547291

That’s great info! Thanks

 

[Fire_9]

We’re talking about two different things. We aren’t talking about leveling a scope during set up or installation of the scope. But since you brought it up… Leveling off a turret cap doesn’t work well since the cap is threaded. It’s never going to be level. Level to a plumb Bob.

We are talking about an extra bubble level that stays on the rifle. Something that verifies the gun is level in the field, prior to the shot.

The point here being, even with step one properly set up, you can still have issues with the reticle not visually appearing level when your bubble says it is. Due to head position as shown in pics above.

I agree. My response was to Juan talking about leveling off a turret

 

[General RE LEE]

It’s an illusion

I reconfirmed everything is plumb and set up like I was going to shoot left handed and used my left eye in the scope. The reticle appeared canted to the right!

Plumb just looks canted to the left in my brain.

 

[chindits]

Old post, but I don’t shoot at a range. I shoot out on BLM land with a 3 leg target I set up anywhere the sage doesn’t get in the way. A lot of times I question my level because of ground slope and target lean compounding perception. In my shooting bag I have a length of red paracord with an eyebolt tied in the end. Every time I tack that on the target it shows the level is right and my mind is wrong. Not so useful on windy days.