Europe stocking up on ammo

[49ereric]

Oh the horror of not wanting to sacrifice a generation for another pointless war.

I agree wars are pointless slaughter but appeasement and isolationism just don’t work.
learn from history or pay the cost of freedom again.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I agree wars are pointless slaughter but appeasement and isolationism just don’t work.
learn from history or pay the cost of freedom again.

When did isolationism not work? When have we successfully tried it? I don’t think anyone here is advocating for appeasement, but I have no interest in Europes affairs

 

[49ereric]

When did isolationism not work? When have we successfully tried it? I don’t think anyone here is advocating for appeasement, but I have no interest in Europes affairs

Read history for yourself and then figure in we have a world economy today.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Read history for yourself and then figure in we have a world economy today.

I have read a solid amount of history. I’m not advocating for economic isolationism, I am advocating for military isolationism and yes those can be exclusive from each other.

 

[49ereric]

I have read a solid amount of history. I’m not advocating for economic isolationism, I am advocating for military isolationism and yes those can be exclusive from each other.

Not exactly cuz the Red Sea shipping is a world economic issue that would be worse with military isolationism.
The China is watching closely on will we continue to support Ukraine or not and then Taiwan could come into play militarily and we have bigger problem.
people wonder why Europe is hoarding ammo can’t read the writing on the wall.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Not exactly cuz the Red Sea shipping is a world economic issue that would be worse with military isolationism.
The China is watching closely on will we continue to support Ukraine or not and then Taiwan could come into play militarily and we have bigger problem.
people wonder why Europe is hoarding ammo can’t read the writing on the wall.

Some of the problems in the Red Sea have come from the U.S. sticking our nose where we shouldn’t have. But the silver lining of all of this is I guess after millions of folks get killed in WW3 assuming we don’t have the nuclear holocaust. Trailheads will be less crowded and draw odds should get better!

 

[SandyCreek]

I have read a solid amount of history. I’m not advocating for economic isolationism, I am advocating for military isolationism and yes those can be exclusive from each other.

there is a difference in isolationism, having a world economy and interventionism. History is something i enjoy studying but i suppose its all through whichever lens you choose to apply it. We cant let ourselves be bullied however WE as a country have wasted blood and treasure far too often and for no real reason.

 

[SandyCreek]

Some of the problems in the Red Sea have come from the U.S. sticking our nose where we shouldn’t have. But the silver lining of all of this is I guess after millions of folks get killed in WW3 assuming we don’t have the nuclear holocaust. Trailheads will be less crowded and draw odds should get better!

hey! study your history we absolutely have never stuck our nose where it doesnt belong and have in no way shape or form set up any of these problems

 

[General RE LEE]

I agree but unfortunately isolationism has once again reared its ugly head.
that didn’t work before WW1 or WW2.

Before WWI and WWII, we had not been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years. There is no comparison.

 

[wind gypsy]

Before WWI and WWII, we had not been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years. There is no comparison.

And countless other proxy conflicts.

 

[IdahoBeav]

History is something i enjoy studying but i suppose its all through whichever lens you choose to apply it.

Or influence and propaganda, both of which the military industrial complex has plenty of.

 

[General RE LEE]

And countless other proxy conflicts.

There were smaller things going on like insurgencies in the Philippines and South America, but nothing like Post WWII Super Power era.

 

[Hnthrdr]

hey! study your history we absolutely have never stuck our nose where it doesnt belong and have in no way shape or form set up any of these problems

Yep while I don’t pretend to have many or all the answers, I got a useless degree in history, and was an officer in the army for the better part of a decade to end up at some of my anti interventionist ideas

 

[LeftyWilbury]

SHOT show discussions with some ammo manufacturers pointed to the following issues:

a) powder is mostly already allocated for 2024. hodgdon (winchester, accurate, ramshot, hodgdon) is cutting off OEM manufacturers to sell direct to consumers and distributors for consumer market (they're making MSRP on their website so why not make more $$). Alliant powders are already non-existent and won't be making the trip over because it's all spoken for in europe. ADI powder swears they're always going to have powder for the locals, and i don't think the US is local. time to find some good vihtavuori loads before the Finns cut us off too.

b) world-wide shortage of 155mm rounds means a LOT of powder is never going to hit civilian market. 13lbs of propellant per round means 91,000 grains of powder. at 5 grains/round for 9mm, that's 364 BOXES of 50 that aren't getting made. PER 155mm ROUND. pentagon is hoping for 100,000 rounds per month?

c) primers are mostly already allocated for manufacturing. a lot of our vendors are very worried they're not going to have enough primers to manufacture their ammo. and these are manufacturers you've heard of, both in the US and overseas. the smaller boutique manufacturers are probably not going to be getting any allocation. and the consumer market is going to see even less.

who cares if europe is stocking up. time to stock up here. heck, it's time to start hitting up estate sales to liberate all the primers, powder and ammo that grandpa was hoarding back when obama was taking away our guns.

 

[Hnthrdr]

SHOT show discussions with some ammo manufacturers pointed to the following issues:

a) powder is mostly already allocated for 2024. hodgdon (winchester, accurate, ramshot, hodgdon) is cutting off OEM manufacturers to sell direct to consumers and distributors for consumer market (they're making MSRP on their website so why not make more $$). Alliant powders are already non-existent and won't be making the trip over because it's all spoken for in europe. ADI powder swears they're always going to have powder for the locals, and i don't think the US is local. time to find some good vihtavuori loads before the Finns cut us off too.

b) world-wide shortage of 155mm rounds means a LOT of powder is never going to hit civilian market. 13lbs of propellant per round means 91,000 grains of powder. at 5 grains/round for 9mm, that's 364 BOXES of 50 that aren't getting made. PER 155mm ROUND. pentagon is hoping for 100,000 rounds per month?

c) primers are mostly already allocated for manufacturing. a lot of our vendors are very worried they're not going to have enough primers to manufacture their ammo. and these are manufacturers you've heard of, both in the US and overseas. the smaller boutique manufacturers are probably not going to be getting any allocation. and the consumer market is going to see even less.

who cares if europe is stocking up. time to stock up here. heck, it's time to start hitting up estate sales to liberate all the primers, powder and ammo that grandpa was hoarding back when obama was taking away our guns.

This makes a lot of sense, anyone know how to make salt-peter? Seems like a great time for a new company and emerge, but I would imagine there is a bit of red tape behind trying to manufacture gun powder…

 

[t_carlson]

Unfortunately like it or not if a country invaded a nato member it very much is ours.

We started it, and we are the only member to invoke article 5.

But that hasn't happened yet. Russians are still thoroughly bogged down in Ukraine.

 

[t_carlson]

I agree wars are pointless slaughter but appeasement and isolationism just don’t work.
learn from history or pay the cost of freedom again.

Mobilizing our military and getting involved all over the globe just don't work either. Aside from the world wars, it has been a total failure, in fact.

I can't imagine the pain Gold Star families who lost loved ones during Iraq and Afghanistan must feel. What a freaking waste.

We need to make sure whatever we get involved in is absolutely worth it. No more Koreas, Vietnams, Afganistans, or Iraqs. Kinda like the most recent 3 soldiers killed in Jordan. WHY???????

There are plenty of military age males in Europe and the mid east to fight for their own land. Instead of paying for socialized medicine, maybe they can buy some guns and ammo.

Free loaders who generally hate us anyway. Fugg 'em.

 

[DangerRanger]

But that hasn't happened yet. Russians are still thoroughly bogged down in Ukraine.

Yes. My comment was about a nato ally being attacked

 

[49ereric]

Some of the problems in the Red Sea have come f

Mobilizing our military and getting involved all over the globe just don't work either. Aside from the world wars, it has been a total failure, in fact.

I can't imagine the pain Gold Star families who lost loved ones during Iraq and Afghanistan must feel. What a freaking waste.

We need to make sure whatever we get involved in is absolutely worth it. No more Koreas, Vietnams, Afganistans, or Iraqs. Kinda like the most recent 3 soldiers killed in Jordan. WHY???????

There are plenty of military age males in Europe and the mid east to fight for their own land. Instead of paying for socialized medicine, maybe they can buy some guns and ammo.

Free loaders who generally hate us anyway. Fugg 'em.

Afghanistan was worth it but then we stayed
you take the win and go home.
iraq was a win as well but then we stayed
you take the win and go home.
I worked with Iraq vets who said the Iraqi people were glad we got rid of saddam but then immediately asked when do you leave?
funding Ukraine is better than us-nato going in and staying.
there is no appeasing Putin the same as appeasement didn’t stop hitler.

 

[IdahoBeav]

there is no appeasing Putin the same as appeasement didn’t stop hitler.

That is a wild stretch. Putin has been in power a total of 20 years, most of which were pretty quiet in terms of international conflict. Even the last couple years are nothing in comparison. It's a shame that so many in the media and positions of power speak with no care or understanding of the magnitude and toll of a global conflict.