Fire on bolt closing

[woods89]

Had a rather unpleasant experience tonight.

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor that has sort of been upgraded 1 piece at a time. I really, really like the rifle. Currently the only original parts are the action and trigger. It started as my 1st rifle 22 years ago, and I have a lot of good memories with it. It's a Remington M7 action, stock trigger. It's been very reliable in it's upgraded form over the last few years.

Tonight I was shooting a bit of a drill that required fairly fast follow-up shots, and it fired on closing the bolt on me. I have tried to build a habit of retaining control and staying roughly on target while running the bolt, and that was a good thing, as that was what kept a round from going somewhere unknown. I tested it quite a bit after with a carefully verified empty chamber, and it's definitely dropping the pin on bolt close semi regularly.

It's admittedly been awhile since the trigger group was cleaned. I'm going to pull it out of the action and flush it out well with Gun Scrubber, and see if that helps. If not, it's getting a new trigger.

Is there anything I'm missing? This rifle has worked well for a long time for me. I know the Tikka trigger is better in many ways, and rifles purchased from here on will be Tikka, but I will not be selling this rifle, and it currently has one of those barrels that shoots almost everything really well.

I know @Formidilosus has recommended the Geissele Super 700, and i did find some online, albeit not cheap. It would likely be worth it if it gives me piece of mind, though. The gentleman that rebarreled it for me uses TriggerTech.

Putting this out there looking for advice, and also as a reminder to keep muzzle control at all times!

 

[Formidilosus]

I know @Formidilosus has recommended the Geissele Super 700, and i did find some online, albeit not cheap. It would likely be worth it if it gives me piece of mind, though. The gentleman that rebarreled it for me uses TriggerTech.

Trigger Techs can and will do it as well, though less frequently than others- this is an inherent design flaw of R700 trigger systems. Buy a Geissele Super 700, it isn’t perfect but you won’t have firing on bolt close anymore.

 

[woods89]

Trigger Techs can and will do it as well, though less frequently than others- this is an inherent design flaw of R700 trigger systems. Buy a Geissele Super 700, it isn’t perfect but you won’t have firing on bolt close anymore.

You, sir, just cost me $330. Thanks, and I mean it!

 

[sambo3006]

A thorough cleaning is a good first step. Next, take a look at the amount of sear engagement. The 700 trigger can be adjusted to minimize creep but it also shortens the amount of sear engagement. This can lead to the firing pin dropping when the bolt is closed.

 

[Formidilosus]

A thorough cleaning is a good first step. Next, take a look at the amount of sear engagement. The 700 trigger can be adjusted to minimize creep but it also shortens the amount of sear engagement. This can lead to the firing pin dropping when the bolt is closed.

Or get a trigger (rifle) that doesn’t have a known trigger failure problem.

 

[woods89]

Or get a trigger (rifle) that doesn’t have a known trigger failure problem.

Quick question, as I know you've had some M7s in the past. My understanding is that you can put a 700 trigger in a M7, but you may have to relieve some stock material for the safety, and you lose the bolt release functionality. The bolt release isn't a big deal to me, as I can slide a small Allen key or knife blade in and release the bolt. Am I correct?

 

[Formidilosus]

Quick question, as I know you've had some M7s in the past. My understanding is that you can put a 700 trigger in a M7, but you may have to relieve some stock material for the safety, and you lose the bolt release functionality. The bolt release isn't a big deal to me, as I can slide a small Allen key or knife blade in and release the bolt. Am I correct?

From what I remember, yes. I have one M7 left, it has a TT R700 trigger in it. Needs to be replaced as ice/snow makes it fire on closing.

 

[woods89]

From what I remember, yes. I have one M7 left, it has a TT R700 trigger in it. Needs to be replaced as ice/snow makes it fire on closing.

Thank you, sir!

 

[TaperPin]

Minimal spring pressure on the sear and/or too little sear engagement and/or “gunsmithing” rounded over the sear or changed the angle during “trigger job”

 

[woods89]

I flushed it out with Gun Scrubber this afternoon. No change. I can make it drop the pin a significant percentage of the time with a hard bolt run, and if I run the bolt with the safety on, and remove the safety, the pin drops sometimes as well.

I ordered a Geissele Super 700 last night. I'm done with this trigger, and I don't know if I'll ever trust a stock Remington trigger again. I will likely take it apart and see what's up after I change it out.

 

[CBB1]

So is this a problem with the safety on or off?


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[Chuckybmd]

Glad no one got hurt. Agree with the comments on muzzle control.

Glad you got it figured out. Or at least it seems that replacing the trigger would help from other commenters.

 

[Wrench]

The walker has a window to see the engagement and sear angles.

 

[B23]

Minimal spring pressure on the sear and/or too little sear engagement and/or “gunsmithing” rounded over the sear or changed the angle during “trigger job”

I think, many, factory Rem 700 triggers have been condemned as dangerous or a POS because of this, exact, problem.

I'm not saying this is the case with the OP's trigger but wayyyyyy to many folks start playing with trigger settings that have absolutely zero understanding of the importance of what and how the different screws/settings do, especially, when it comes to sear engagement.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I had a rifle for a number of years. Killed a lot of elk and never had a problem. We were loading elk quarters into a truck that it was leaned up against. It fell over and discharged. Caught my attention right away. I put a timney trigger on it and it was nice but I still didn't trust it.

One day I had it apart and upon careful examination discovered that there was enough slop in the action to make it eligible for dangerous mistakes. I looked even closer and discovered that someone had filed the cleat on the bottom the bolt in an effort to
Give it a hair trigger and minimize the travel distance. I started shopping for a new gun that day.

I settled on a browning because of the button safety on the trigger guard and I owned a lot of brownings.

There are a lot things you don't notice when you are starting out.

 

[woods89]

So is this a problem with the safety on or off?


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Run the bolt with the safety off, and the pin will drop sometimes as you close the handle.

Run the bolt with the safety on, and it will cock like it should, but some of the time the pin will drop when you take the safety off.

This trigger has been worked on, but has been issue free for probably 700 rounds. Something appears to be mechanically wrong with it.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Something appears to be mechanically wrong with it.

yes - the fundamental design.

 

[prairieboy]

yes - the fundamental design.

so wHat about the design is bad/flawed? ive often heard this but hever seen it explianed properly. How is it different than a tikka or x bolt trigger?

 

[woods89]

The walker has a window to see the engagement and sear angles.

I'm no gunsmith, so it's a little hard to know what to look for. I plan on following installation instructions to the letter when I install the new one and I'll leave it at that.

You can wiggle the trigger blade back and forth just a bit. It's like it won't reset some of the time after firing.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

so wHat about the design is bad/flawed? ive often heard this but hever seen it explianed properly. How is it different than a tikka or x bolt trigger?

the Tikka safety completely blocks the firing pin with a big chunk of metal. Remington design does not. this article has lots of links to others and videos where Walker talks about the problems, and how Remington ignored his recommendations to make the triggers cheaper:

Under Oath: Inventor of controversial Remington trigger speaks

Mike Walker died a few years ago, but a deposition — never seen before — sheds fresh light on problems with the trigger he invented.

www.cnbc.com

here's a more technical explanation: https://www.700rifle.com/threads/remington-walker-trigger-explanation.19289/