First go at reloading

[sndmn11]

Same temperature as before, about 60deg, same range.

I went from the Hornaday brass to the Remington brass. SInce the Rem brass is a little smaller in capacity, I expected the velocity and pressure to increase, I just didn't know how much. I also seated them a tiny bit deeper which I think might also do the same.

30-06 Remington Brass, Fed 210 primer, BTO 2.579" = ~.111 jump (I was trying for .110) COAL 3.258" 168gr ttsx
57.4gr = 2868, 2891fps
57.7 = 2873, 2880
58.0 = 2909, 2896
58.2 = 2896, 2901
58.4 = 2905, 2915
58.6 = 2936, 2926
58.8 = 2931, 2944
60.0 = 2965, 2971

So, it looks like 58.1 should get me around 2800fps, and I am going to experiment with around 60.1 next go around. Bolt lift was all the same, brass and primers look fine.

I also loaded up some 6.5cm for a 20" Vanguard (2.295" to lands) and a 24" Vanguard (2.308" to lands).
Federal nickel brass with small primer pocket, winchester srp, BTO 2.208" = ~.087" and .100" jump respectively, 2.715" COAL, 120gr Nosler e-tip.
20"
44.7gr = 2856, 2839fps
45.0 = 2830, 2870
45.2 = 2838, 2866
45.4 = 2841, 2871
45.6 = 2886, 2874
24"
44.7gr = 2891, 2931fps
45.0 = 2938, 2947
45.2 = 2949, 2936
45.4 = 2945, 2959
45.6 = 2962, 2955

What is really interesting to me is that for both cartridges and all three rifles, at .1" jump, they are still longer than factory. For the 30-06 168ttsx, Barnes has a COAL at 3.240", I am at 3.258" with a .110" jump. The factory trophy copper cartridges that are the reason why we chose the e-tip for the 6.5cm, are about another .02" shorter than what I loaded up, but the Nosler load data has 2.775" for a COAL on their website. I also have some factory Hornady American Whitetail, and they are a similar length and BTO to the factory trophy copper. So, I don't know what to make of that. For reference, that factory trophy copper was going 2752 in the 20" rifle. I think I am going to experiment around the 45.6gr in that cartridge since in both rifles the two were not far apart.

 

[JakeSCH]

Staball 6.5 for the -06? Those speeds are smoking!! Lol I have a buddy who loads his 175 LRX to those velocities in his 300 WSM.

*EDIT* your load aligns very well with published load data. Per Winch 58.1 grs produced 2903 fps

 

[sndmn11]

Staball 6.5 for the -06? Those speeds are smoking!! Lol I have a buddy who loads his 175 LRX to those velocities in his 300 WSM.

*EDIT* your load aligns very well with published load data. Per Winch 58.1 grs produced 2903 fps

Look up what it does in the 7-08 with a 139/145gr bullet.

With the H4350, was getting a crunch loading the 30-06 with those bullets, with the Staball I am not. I am sure it is not a surprise that more grains of powder means a fast bullet. I was really surprised with the 6.5 creedmoor loads, everything we have tested for factory ammo in both rifles has been a good bit below what the box said. That little 20" rifle is exceeding factory Nosler and Federal 120gr e-tip loads, I think that is pretty cool. The 24" 6.5cm should be flatter than that 30-06.

 

[Newtosavage]

Look up what it does in the 7-08 with a 139/145gr bullet.

With the H4350, was getting a crunch loading the 30-06 with those bullets, with the Staball I am not. I am sure it is not a surprise that more grains of powder means a fast bullet. I was really surprised with the 6.5 creedmoor loads, everything we have tested for factory ammo in both rifles has been a good bit below what the box said. That little 20" rifle is exceeding factory Nosler and Federal 120gr e-tip loads, I think that is pretty cool. The 24" 6.5cm should be flatter than that 30-06.

I tried StaBall in my 7mm-08's and wasn't impressed with the accuracy (or lack of) so I went back to what I had been using before. Fast? sure. But I never saw the groups I was used to seeing. Shame really.

 

[sndmn11]

I tried StaBall in my 7mm-08's and wasn't impressed with the accuracy (or lack of) so I went back to what I had been using before. Fast? sure. But I never saw the groups I was used to seeing. Shame really.

What were your loads?

 

[Newtosavage]

What were your loads?

I don't have them handy. I'll post up after I check.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Seating deeper has little to no effect on chamber pressure, getting close to the lands is what increases pressure or can cause a spike if done negligently. That's why there are tons of published compressed loads at SAAMI COAL. You can test it yourself by shooting a charge ladder at .050" or .100" off, and one close to or touching the lands. Your max safe load will likely be very close if not indistinguishable with the jump loads, and less when touching the lands. Different brands of brass will have different pressure thresholds for multiple reasons.

That's also why you're seeing such short COAL on factory ammo. Loaded to SAAMI spec they have to be sure they will safely feed and shoot in every factory rifle, and SAAMI chambers typically have a lot of freebore to alleviate pressure and improve accuracy potential.

 

[sndmn11]

Seating deeper has little to no effect on chamber pressure, getting close to the lands is what increases pressure or can cause a spike if done negligently.

That's also why you're seeing such short COAL on factory ammo. Loaded to SAAMI spec they have to be sure they will safely feed and shoot in every factory rifle, and SAAMI chambers typically have a lot of freebore to alleviate pressure and improve accuracy potential.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you.

 

[Harvey_NW]

That makes a lot of sense, thank you.

You've got some good data, if you're ok with your velocities and COAL I would start testing seating depths. If you were trying to push more velocity you could scoot it out and ladder up with more powder in small increments in search of max.

I've learned it's most efficient to have a goal in mind with a determining starting point; e.g. mag length, .050" off, bullet seated a calibers depth, bottom edge of the bearing surface near the neck/shoulder junction, whatever it may be that suits your needs. Then run a charge ladder at the estimated longest length within your parameters, and micro adjust seating from there.

 

[sndmn11]

Well I goofed. If you look back to my last data set for 30-06, I jumped from 58.8gr to 60.0gr. I looked back on the brass and all of my notes and that is what it said, I can't find on the powder dispenser instructions if I can look back through the log but I am 95% certain the tests were 60 instead of 59. It is the newest Hornady Auto Charge.

So, I made up some around 60.0 before I realized the mistake.. I have (5)59.8, (5)60.0, and (5)60.2 with BTO 2.579, and (3) of 60.0 at 2.559BTO. My goal is to find that node in the high 2900s

In 6.5CM I have (5)45.8, (1) 45.7, (4) 45.6 at 2.208 BTO, and (5)45.8, (1)45.7, (4) 45.6 with BTO 2.170. My goal is to find the node around 2960.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Well I goofed. If you look back to my last data set for 30-06, I jumped from 58.8gr to 60.0gr. I looked back on the brass and all of my notes and that is what it said, I can't find on the powder dispenser instructions if I can look back through the log but I am 95% certain the tests were 60 instead of 59. It is the newest Hornady Auto Charge.

So, I made up some around 60.0 before I realized the mistake.. I have (5)58.8, (5)60.0, and (5)60.2 with BTO 2.579, and (3) of 60.0 at 2.559BTO. My goal is to find that node in the high 2900s

In 6.5CM I have (5)45.8, (1) 45.7, (4) 45.6 at 2.208 BTO, and (5)45.8, (1)45.7, (4) 45.6 with BTO 2.170. My goal is to find the node around 2960.

What kind of chrono are you using? If you're using a magnetospeed shooting groups with a bayo on has proven equivalent to pissing in the wind in my experience.

My opinion is these "nodes" everyone searches for don't jump out all the time. Sometimes with proper brass prep you'll get incremental velocity increase with your charge weight increase, like your 30-06 data. Pick the charge weight at the velocity you want to run and do a seating depth test. As for the other cartridges, pick the flat spot in the velocity and seating depth test from there. Once you have jump dialed in go back and flirt with groups/velocity tests +.1/.2, -.1/.2 of your charge weight to see if anything really stands out and identify if you're actually in a good "node".

Since you asked "what would you do", I would bust all those loads apart and load a short ladder at the top end, at .050" off the lands (assuming it will fit). After I identified where pressure was and saw the velocities if they incrementally increased like the initial testing I would drop 1gr below max and load a seating depth test, if not I would pick the flat spot in the velocity trend that's below max and load a seating depth test. I would load 3 shots each at .050, .055, .060, .065, .070, .075, .080, .085, .090" off the lands. If you cover that much and don't see a trend or get some identifiable results, it's time to switch one or more components, but I've never had this method not work for me.

 

[sndmn11]

What kind of chrono are you using? If you're using a magnetospeed shooting groups with a bayo on has proven equivalent to pissing in the wind in my experience.

I do have a magnetospeed. My plan is to shoot 2 of the 2.579BTO 30-06 at the 69.2 and 59.8 and see if there is indeed a node around 60.0 since I have that data from before. Then I can shoot the rest as groups without the magnetospeed.

For the two creedmoors, shoot the 45.8 charge in each rifle to see if there is a node around 45.7, then shoot to see how they group at those two seating depths. I prepped some brass at lunch and will make up some more of what I have already.

 

[sndmn11]

@KickinNDishin talked me into skipping out early today.

30-06 Remington Brass, Fed 210 primer, BTO 2.579" = ~.111 jump (I was trying for .110) COAL 3.258" 168gr ttsx
I pressed up 5 each at 59.8gr, 60.0, and 60.2. I also did 3 of 60.0 at 2.559BTO. I shot 2 each of the longer for velocity, and then shot 4 three shot groups with the remaining.
BTO 2.579"
59.8gr = 2996, 2994
60.0 = 2983, 2986
60.2 = 2994, 2993
Three shot group at 59.8 was maybe a half inch. The other four groups were one to one and a half inches all with horizontal stringing which was probably half me fighting the wind. I think I can settle on the load pictured below.

300wsm 175LRX Norma 1x fired, FEDGM215M, 2.090 case trim length, 2.175" BTO gives .11 jump, with Staball
65.8gr = 2990, 2992
66.8 = 3068,
67.8 = 3087
68.2 = 3105, 3101
68.6 = 3118, 3108
68.8 = 3112, 3121
These were in ball less than 2" with the magnetospeed on, and I am really excited about this load.

6.5 Creedmoor has me a little perplexed.
Federal Nickel Winchester SRP Staball 2.208" BTO
24"
45.6gr = 2986fps, 3012 (previously 2962, 2955)
45.8 = 2957
I shot a group of 14 between 45.6gr and 45.8gr and it came out to about 2 1/2" and the bolt was fine.
20"
45.6 = 2939, 2942 (previously 2886, 2874) stiff bolts
45.8 = 2928 very hard bolt

Same as above with 2.139" BTO
24"
45.6 = 2971, 2972
45.8 = 2960, 2942
I shot a group of 14 between 45.6gr and 45.8gr and it came out to about the same as above and the bolt was fine.
20"
45.6 = 2889, 2888in between stiff and hard bolt so I stopped.

Federal Nickel CCI400 Staball 2.208" BTO
24"
45.6 = 2949, 2965
45.8 = 2983, 2994, 2983
I shot a group of 15 between 45.6 and 45. 8 and it was a nice ball about 2" bolt was fine.
20"
I saw the higher velocity with the CCI compared to the WSRP and didn't even try.

Same as above with 2.139" BTO
24"
45.8 = 2960, 2936, 2945, 2957
I shot a group of 14 in between 45.6 and 45.8 and it was taller than wide the worst of the day.
20"
45.6 = 2864, 2861 I got down to these as the last shots of the day, and figured I could try them in the 20", the bolt lift was fine.

I am happy with the 30-06 and the 300WSM.

I don't know what to think about the 6.5cm, I think I can settle for the 24" at 45.6 to 45.8 grains but the 3012 reading throws it off a little. I have 127gr LRX, IMR4451, and Hornady large primer brass that I can try if I want to start a different load.

 

[sndmn11]

Shot the 30-06 load at 60.0 grains for 7 shots, and the group had horizontal stringing for about two inches. Velocity for 1 each at 59.8 = 2989fps, 60.0 = 2976, 60.2 = 3000. So, 59.8 will be the load.

300WSM as above 68.2gr = 3082, 68.4 = 3105, 68.6 = 3111. I shot 68.4 at 100 yards for a three shot group below. I shot 4 shot group at 300 yards and had no vertical deviation and about 4" horizontal spread. So I will load some more at 68.4.

The 6.5cm was bothering me a lot not being able to use a load in both guns due to pressure. I made up some starting at 44.7 gr staball and with the LRX bullets in both the nickel Federal small primer and also in brass for the first time. There was no difference, so now I get to learn how to take cartridges apart.

I also made some up using Hornady large primer brass. I am assuming the internal capacity is greater because they weight less. These rocked.
Hornady 1x brass WLRP BTO 2.160" 120gr Etip
20" Rifle
44.7gr = 2832, 44.9gr = 2808, 2865 (whatda), 45.1gr = 2845, 2862, 45.3gr = 2844, 2847, 45.5 = 2872, 2843 all with no stiffness or marks on the brass. Seems maybe 45.3 would be good to work around.

 

[sndmn11]

@Newtosavage this is the first ten of 7-08 that I have loaded and is from a 20" Vanguard.

 

[Newtosavage]

Yea, StaBall is fast alright. If you can get accuracy from it, go for it!

I have a new Shaw 7mm-08 barrel on my Savage short action. I chopped it from 24" to 21" and it gave me two 0.6's yesterday with good 'ol 139 BTSP Interlocks at 2900 fps. There isn't much I hunt that won't fall to that. Oh, that was with IMR 4166 too, in Lapua brass.

 

[z987k]

I just started working a load up in 30-06 with absolute hammers. Everything I used was more or less because it's all I can get. I have a tikka rifle and .105 off the lands because of the magazine. This is where I'm at now. 54.5gr started showing light pressure. 55gr was too much for sure.
20" barrel
CCI BR-2 primer
Lapua Brass
162gr AH
54gr IMR4064
2948fps average(SD=19)
This shot a .62" group at 100y.

Prior to cutting the barrel down, with factory loads, I found there to be in the 20fps per inch loss, so there's probably 80-100fps to be had out of a factory full length barrel.

Figured it would be a nice data point vs your ttsx loads. Monos of similar weight.

 

[sndmn11]

Here is where things have settled before the season. I have had a lot of fun doing this.

30-06:
Staball at 59.8gr, FED210, Rem case at 2.484", 168gr TTSX at 2.579"BTO, 2990fps 24" Vanguard

300WSM:
Staball at 68.4gr, FEDgm215m, Norma case at 2.090", 175gr LRX at 2.175"BTO, 3100fps 23" Xbolt

6.5Creedmoor:
Staball at 45.3gr, Winchester LRP, Hornady case at 1.910"
120gr Etip at 2.195"BTO, 2840FPS 20" Vanguard
127gr LRX at 2.208"BTO, 2853fps 24" Vanguard
By far the hardest to develop. I couldn't get Federal small primer brass to not nipple the primer at lower charges. The 20" gun sees pressure before the 24" gun, hence the two different loads.

7-08:
Staball at 50.3gr, CCI200, Rem/Barnes case at 2.025", 145gr LRX at 2.234BTO, 2900fps 20" Vanguard
This was a 12 shot string and a flat spot from 2890-2907 at 50.0 to 50.5gr. Easiest of the bunch.

25-06:
IMR4451 at 54.8gr, CCI200, Winchester case at 2.484", 100gr ETip at 2.658BTO, 3450FPS 23" factory Tikka T3
I learned how to hit 3700FPS by seeing a xx.9 in the book and translating the .9 into 59. Primer blew and some whacks were needed.

30-30:
Leverevolution at 35gr, Winchester LRP, Remington/Hornady/Federal case at 2.030", 140 Monoflex 2.105BTO with an "1/8th turn past touching the case" crimp instruction on the RCBS die, 2375fps Winchester 94 20" I think.
The case didn't seem to equate to variances in velocity with case capacity of water 48.4gr, 44.9gr, 44.6gr respectively. The factory Hornady Leverevolution 160ftx is actually a little faster in this gun and has better BC.

I will be doing a 22BR in the Tikka. I am really happy with the results, other than the two 6.5CM, I was hoping to see a little more velocity. Accuracy in all has been very good.

 

[Tobey]

Sta ball is looking really good for me in the 7mm-08 with 150s, will probably switch entirely when I'm out of RL 17, which will be soon. Always had an easy time finding good accuracy in the 06 wtih 4350's, used IMR for a long time but had good luck with H4350 and accurate 4350 as well.

 

[sndmn11]

Here is some new stuff:
30-06 Hornady Brass 2.484" trim, Barnes TTSX 130gr., Fed 210 primer, BTO 2.586" got me right up to the edge of the last groove. IMR4166
54.5gr = 3100fps
55.5gr = 3179
56.0gr = 3218
56.5gr = 3243
56.8gr = 3247
57.0gr = 3239
57.2gr = 3283
57.5gr = 3297
57.8gr = 3335
58.0gr = 3334
58.2gr = 3355

22BR
Lapua brass 1.554", CCI400, 80gr ELDM,

IMR4166 1.675"BTO
25.5gr = 2718fps
26.5gr = 2793
27.0gr = 2855
27.5gr = 2935

IMR4451 1.675"BTO
30.0gr = 2856fps
30.5gr = 2841
31.0 gr = 2920
31.5gr = 2975

Final load 22BR
IMR4451 30.3gr, CCI400, 80gr ELDm, 1.554" case trim, 1.714"BTO (.05jump in this barrel),
2842, 2856, 2832, 2839, 2839, 2854, 2882, 2838, 2464