Glock 20 modifications for backcountry carry

[mcseal2]

Anyway hope that helps some of you wondering about the EP hitting high. It did not seem that they are hitting higher than the other ammo from my gun. I'm glad to see it is feeding something in the conversation for a bear round, no failures today except the one shot fired with the 24lb spring.

I did not try the Extreme Penetrators with the factory barrel although I thought about it for the benefit of others reading this. I have made the investment in the KKM barrel and I thought I should just use it for my test. This ammo is to dang expensive for me to burn in a barrel I probably won't ever use since buying the aftermarket one. If someone wants to send me $35 I will sure run 20 through my stock barrel and report back, but otherwise I'm going to keep running the KKM.

Since I'm this deep in this project last night I got online and ordered a couple boxes of Double Tap. I got the 200gr and 230gr Hardcast loads. I'm going to shoot both. Then I'll have tried all 3 of the companies I hear about most bear ammo. I'll make a choice on what's best for my gun from there.

 

[Rob5589]

Good info so far, keep at it.

 

[mcseal2]

On a side note I went back outside after posting this with my S&W 386XL Hunter 357 and the box of HSM 180gr HC bear loads I got for it. I have been shooting 158gr JSP ammo through this gun and the sights were set for it. No sight adjustment was needed. The recoil makes the gun jump, but it's not uncomfortable. After 15 of these plus the shooting earlier (tested 10mm plus 25rds of practice stuff) my hands are fine. I couldn't shoot 1/3 that many through my Redhawk 5.5" 44 barehanded without feeling it. These lighter calibers really are a different power level than the 44 and I feel it shooting them.

Anyway firing single action at 20 yards about as fast as I could I put 5 in the cardboard square from the earlier pic. 3 hit the same hole. I still shoot better with my revolvers with worked over triggers.

At 10 yards firing the revolver double action the Glock is more accurate. I shot two 5 shot groups that way and both were around 5" groups and less consistent in a direction than the Glock. I was shooting as quick as I could come off recoil. The light 357 with that ammo takes longer to get back on target off recoil than the Glock, and with the double action trigger is harder to shoot accurately.

Nothing real surprising, but I was glad to see I can switch loads back and forth on the 357 without changing anything, at least at bear defense range. Damn it was nice to shoot a crisp revolver trigger single action after shooting the striker fired gun so much lately. I will always like those triggers best but I'll get better with the striker fired ones as I shoot them more.

That ammo isn't super hot either. It's rated at 1200fps and 586lbs of energy. The Buffalo Bore 357 is rated at 1400fps and 783lbs of energy. Underwood is rated the same and Double Tap is rated at 1300fps and 676lbs of energy. Those are all a big step up from the HSM. I wouldn't want rounds to break crimp in the lighter gun. My 386 is a full size 6" 7 shot scandium version of the 686 so I don't know if that's a risk or not. Big gun but light.

 

[duchntr]

FYI double tap has a 35% off coupon "35MAY "

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I appreciate your posting of loads and accuracy. Thanks. Still think my XDm will kick your Glock's ass

These threads have made me think about ammo choices......I may capitalize on the above coupon. But I am leaning toward trying the Lehigh before anything else

 

[mcseal2]

I wont argue for the Glock over the XD. It will fit its niche but i wont ever love it as much as my 357’s or 1911’s. I am just not a striker fired fan. For a gun I plan to carry a lot and hopefully never fire at anything live the weight and features fit. XD fits the same niche so it would have been a fine choice too, maybe a much simpler choice.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

You mail ordering all this ammo? I've never seen anything cool at a Sportsmans or Cabelas in the inland empire. Odd.....as we have Grizzly here and would think backcountry carry ammo much more a priority here than in Iowa

 

[mcseal2]

All mine was bought online.

 

[Beendare]

....

I am just not a striker fired fan. ....

I've come around on Striker fired pistols. A great choice for someone packing in varying conditions.

After packing an assortment of pistols all over heck- chasing hog dogs over hill and dale, through brush, etc....I've come to appreciate Striker fired weapons. No hammer to get hung up on clothing, brush, pack straps, etc. The trigger pull is consistent- a key concept as a defensive weapon vs the longer first pull on some semi autos...or long trigger pulls of a revolver.

Striker is KING in quick action shooting situations....and thats what we are talking about here. Add in the other advantages to consistent trigger and no hammer...its a winner in my book. Judging by their popularity for LEO's that rely on these for self defense...I'm not the only one.

 

[mcseal2]

You are right. I bought the G20 for those reasons plus the weight, rail, and ability to add night sights easily. I grew up running bricks of 22 through a Single Six I packed everywhere, so cocking a revolver is part of drawing one for me. I've shot revolvers so much that I can fire an accurate first shot faster with my 386, Ruger Security Six, or Blackhawk. Past that shot though the striker fired gun wins hands down for accurate rounds on target. It also beats my Sig 226 or Ruger P series DA/SA guns for accurate first shot speed and precision from the holster. The single action trigger of a revolver or 1911 beats the G20 for me, but the striker fired trigger is much better than any double action trigger pull. Having a hammer hasn't been an issue for me when open carrying in a good hip holster. As I get more rounds through the Glock and get better with the trigger this might change.

There is always the risk of panicking too and forgetting the safety which a striker fired gun won't have. I have never had that happen, but I've never been charged by a bear either. I got charged by a badger once and killed him with the Single Six. It spiked my adrenaline at the time, but is not at all the same thing.

I think the 1911 is still a good platform if a person takes the time to get familiar with it. The downside in 10mm for my use is that the 1911's are heavier and not as easy to take down and clean in the field. A G20 can be taken down very quick without worry about losing anything dealing with compressed springs. I'd hate to slip and lose a piece re-assembling a 1911 in the middle of nowhere Alaska for example. Most law enforcement has gone to the striker fired guns, but quite a few of the more elite units still carry the 1911 platform. I'd bet a lot of that is due to the trigger improving accuracy on tough shots. If I get a second 10mm down the road the Sig 220 Elite SAO interests me. It has many of the features I like in a 1911 with the easy takedown of my 226. Downside is that it's a heavy gun.

For accuracy, hunting with a handgun, or shooting enjoyment I'll take a 1911 or revolver every time. For a gun intended for defense the striker fired platform has it's benefits for sure.

 

[Reburn]

You are right. I bought the G20 for those reasons plus the weight, rail, and ability to add night sights easily. I grew up running bricks of 22 through a Single Six I packed everywhere, so cocking a revolver is part of drawing one for me. I've shot revolvers so much that I can fire an accurate first shot faster with my 386, Ruger Security Six, or Blackhawk. Past that shot though the striker fired gun wins hands down for accurate rounds on target. It also beats my Sig 226 or Ruger P series DA/SA guns for accurate first shot speed and precision from the holster. The single action trigger of a revolver or 1911 beats the G20 for me, but the striker fired trigger is much better than any double action trigger pull. Having a hammer hasn't been an issue for me when open carrying in a good hip holster. As I get more rounds through the Glock and get better with the trigger this might change.

There is always the risk of panicking too and forgetting the safety which a striker fired gun won't have. I have never had that happen, but I've never been charged by a bear either. I got charged by a badger once and killed him with the Single Six. It spiked my adrenaline at the time, but is not at all the same thing.

I think the 1911 is still a good platform if a person takes the time to get familiar with it. The downside in 10mm for my use is that the 1911's are heavier and not as easy to take down and clean in the field. A G20 can be taken down very quick without worry about losing anything dealing with compressed springs. I'd hate to slip and lose a piece re-assembling a 1911 in the middle of nowhere Alaska for example. Most law enforcement has gone to the striker fired guns, but quite a few of the more elite units still carry the 1911 platform. I'd bet a lot of that is due to the trigger improving accuracy on tough shots. If I get a second 10mm down the road the Sig 220 Elite SAO interests me. It has many of the features I like in a 1911 with the easy takedown of my 226. Downside is that it's a heavy gun.

For accuracy, hunting with a handgun, or shooting enjoyment I'll take a 1911 or revolver every time. For a gun intended for defense the striker fired platform has it's benefits for sure.

I really like my Rock Island Tac ultra ms a ton more then my g20. BUT..... The g20 weighs 7 less ounces with 15 rounds vs 8. By the time you add all the and thens onto the g20 price its about 250 more then the rock island too. I've gone down the same road with my gen 4 g20 as you but had 0 of the problems you have honestly. The rock island got trijicon nights and is getting a trigger job now as 5.5lbs was too heavy for me.

 

[Beendare]

Can't beat a 1911 for accurate shooting......but packing a cocked and locked pistol on a hunt is a bad idea, IMO.

maybe because I'm an old hog hunter....pawing through brush chasing dogs.....I've seen problems with that cocked and locked doing that. A guy really needs a full flap holster to keep the junk out with a weapon like that.

In fact, I quit guiding for hogs due to a client that just HAD TO CARRY his grand daddies cocked and locked Colt .45 on a hog hunt- too dangerous. This particular guy was a douche bag. We told him NOT to unholster until we gave him the go ahead. ...we didn't want a dog shot.

When we finally dragging his azz to the hog fighting our dogs in a creek bottom his eyes were as big as saucers. He was literally a deer in the headlights. He pulls his gun while still staggering up to the dogs/hog.....swaying while pointing the Colt all over. My buddy yells don't shoot....and this guy in a daze turns and points the gun right at my partners head next to him. My partner dodges and grabs the gun with his finger between the hammer and the frame....and just plops down right there white as a ghost in the middle of things.

The hammer had snapped down with his finger preventing it from firing. Yep, my last day guiding for hogs that was [I still help guide for elk/deer] ....you can't pick your clients!

With striker fire...you don't have to worry about the exposed hammer


..

 

[mcseal2]

Makes sense thinking of it that way carrying it through the brush. Sounds like that idiot would have been dangerous with anything! I dont think I have the temperament to guide. I have friends that do and the stories they tell are crazy. Many clients are great but a few have no business going on hunts like theirs.

 

[Rob5589]

Can't beat a 1911 for accurate shooting......but packing a cocked and locked pistol on a hunt is a bad idea, IMO.

maybe because I'm an old hog hunter....pawing through brush chasing dogs.....I've seen problems with that cocked and locked doing that. A guy really needs a full flap holster to keep the junk out with a weapon like that.

In fact, I quit guiding for hogs due to a client that just HAD TO CARRY his grand daddies cocked and locked Colt .45 on a hog hunt- too dangerous. This particular guy was a douche bag. We told him NOT to unholster until we gave him the go ahead. ...we didn't want a dog shot.

When we finally dragging his azz to the hog fighting our dogs in a creek bottom his eyes were as big as saucers. He was literally a deer in the headlights. He pulls his gun while still staggering up to the dogs/hog.....swaying while pointing the Colt all over. My buddy yells don't shoot....and this guy in a daze turns and points the gun right at my partners head next to him. My partner dodges and grabs the gun with his finger between the hammer and the frame....and just plops down right there white as a ghost in the middle of things.

The hammer had snapped down with his finger preventing it from firing. Yep, my last day guiding for hogs that was [I still help guide for elk/deer] ....you can't pick your clients!

With striker fire...you don't have to worry about the exposed hammer


..

I am not a 1911 fan but to be fair, that client would have been unsafe with any firearm from the sound of it.

 

[Beendare]

I am not a 1911 fan but to be fair, that client would have been unsafe with any firearm from the sound of it.

True^ ...but the point is...there is a good reason why striker fire pistols are so popular.

..

 

[mcseal2]

Well I got the 22lb spring and some more ammo. I got another box of Buffalo Bore and one of the Underwood Extreme Penetrators. I did not yet get in my Double Tap order.

I used the 22lb spring and shot the rest of the Underwood 200 and 220gr HC ammo I had. Long story short, nothing fed without failures. I tried the stock mag until I had a failure to feed, then finished what I had through the +10% spring mag. I'm done experimenting with the Underwood HC.

I tried the Buffalo Bore again with the 22lb spring. I had failures, 2 out of 12 rounds. I tried it with the stock spring like I had the other day and had a failure in the first 5 rounds. I then tried the 22lb spring and +10% spring mag. I had another failure on the 3rd round. Looks like my good luck the other day was due to a small sample size.

The Buffalo Bore has the most recoil and smoke of any of the loads I've tried. It's not uncomfortable or a problem, but it is noticeable after shooting more of it.

I will try the Double Tap ammo when it arrives. At this point though the only thing I trust is the Underwood Extreme Penetrator. It shot the best accuracy wise of the loads I shot today. It functioned fine with the 22lb spring and whatever mag I put it in. It hits very close to the same POI at 20 yards as my 180gr JHP load. Unless the Double Tap changes my mind, I'm going to go with this ammo.

I will also contact KKM and ask them their thoughts before giving up on HC. I want to do that out of curiosity if nothing else.

I went and finished some chores and came back and shot the 180gr ammo I have been running with the 22lb spring installed. It functioned fine as always.

The thing that sucks about this whole deal is that I could have left the gun stock and shot that ammo just fine I bet. No need for springs, barrels, or mag springs. It probably shoots better and faster with the 6" KKM barrel, but it might be fine through the stock one too. Live and learn I guess.

I won a GB auction on a used S&W 69 44 magnum Sunday. I guess if I think the 140gr Extreme Penetrator isn't enough for something I'll have that option going forward. I had looked at the 69 before getting the Glock and always kinda wanted one. 44 power on the L frame like my 386XL Hunter. I figure it doesn't hurt to have options. I will start a new thread when I get to shooting it. I'm wanting to try some of the Buffalo Bore 255gr Reduced Recoil ammo through it and see how bad it kicks and how slow follow up shots are. I sold my Redhawk a while back and that left me without a 44 handgun but still with a WInchester Trapper 44 lever gun. I wanted to get another 44 revolver at some point and thought this one was a decent deal.

So in a wrap up on the G20 project for now, It has fed the Fiocchi 180gr JHP flawlessly through hundreds of rounds. That ammo is probably plenty for anywhere bears aren't an issue, and probably fine for black bear. Reviews I've seen on it are good when it's been used hunting. I will keep the gun and shoot that through it around home and probably other places too. If I was taking it to Alaska or other bear country tomorrow I'd be packing the 140gr Extreme Penetrator ammo. Honestly if I was going tomorrow I'd take my S&W 386 with the 180gr HC loads. I have had enough issues at this point that the old favorite I trust would go despite the advantages of the semi-auto. As I stop experimenting and get more rounds through the G20 shooting ammo it likes and stop experiencing so many failures it will likely re-gain ground and I'll get more confident with it. I won't be in grizzly country again until fall of 2020 so we have time. Last thing I want on my mind if I ever need to use it is fear it will jam.

 

[Reburn]

I must have missed in the 10 pages. Do you not have the stock parts anymore?

 

[mcseal2]

I have all the stock parts still

 

[Rob5589]

Crazy that no combo of parts would provide any sort of reliability with anything other than the Fiocchi.

 

[mcseal2]

Fiocchi and underwood extreme penetrators. I havent tried other ammo under 200gr or non-hardcast yet.