Have we reached a point with optics where they can not be improved upon

[fire652]

I’ve been lucky with my ability to acquire quality optics. I have one last purchase that I am currently making then I’ll be set. But it got me to thinking have we reached a point where any improvement in the optics will only be apparent to digital testing. I have swaro el and it is hard for me to see any improvement over what this glass can handle. I am Atleast certain that my eyes can’t tell much difference in the premium glass. Now I know there are some electronic binoculars that are being tested and I’m not a fan of those but by and large have we maxed out the capabilities of the premium glass


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[isu22andy]

Not sure , but I always wonder wonder how good some peoples eyes are on this forum . I know mine are okay for everyday things, shooting guns, reading ect but I know they arent perfect either. There has to be diminishing returns on your investment in glass unless you have 100% perfect 20/10 vision Id think.

 

[fire652]

I do know that first and last light as well as looking into shadows nothing beats the higher end glass but I agree that there is diminishing returns when we begin to look at the higher end glass and the new models vs the older ones


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Not sure , but I always wonder wonder how good some peoples eyes are on this forum . I know mine are okay for everyday things, shooting guns, reading ect but I know they arent perfect either. There has to be diminishing returns on your investment in glass unless you have 100% perfect 20/10 vision Id think.

You can adjust the focus to work with your eyes. IE someone with glasses can just take them off to look through binos if they aren’t trying to look at other things too.

 

[isu22andy]

You can adjust the focus to work with your eyes. IE someone with glasses can just take them off to look through binos if they aren’t trying to look at other things too.

Duh - Very true . I wasnt thinking there.

 

[SoCalBoyDontKnow]

Speaking from a strictly materials science perspective. There is a lot of ground to be improved upon. Most notably in the space called image processing. Although I have not seen any article state interests in going into the domestic household, (they tend to speak on hubble space telescope size projects), this does not mean it is not out of the question. I would expect to see integrated computers in the on the actual bodies of the spotters and fitted with what they are calling metalenses. Theoretically they will be able to switch or "slide" through the light spectrum to see different light.
I have also wondered when the time would come to when people can "digicam" without having to attach the phone to the actually eyepiece.
One last thing to think about would be the ability to spatially lay out a hillside on your phone. Imaging being able to be take a panoramic picture through the spotter and also be able to send out a pin on spots that are of interest to you. You would never lose a odd looking shadow again. Unless you don't send the pin.
Optics have been around before the time when Baal was losing his fight to El Shaddai. We know that because Pliny the Elder was using them and saw ships burned with optics and makeshift massive monocles. All in all I think the idea of "clarity" will change into "what wavelength would work best to help this color that I am after pop out" add that to some good 'ol computing power and you have the next optical revolution on your hands.

source: broke university student.

 

[rayporter]

that is a great question. I remember back in the early 2000's that the big scope companies were saying no one would buy a 45 power [ or more] and that a 3x optcal magnification was all that could be done ie. a 4-12 x and say a 6..5-20x

and then Turk Takano and Kelbly and some others convinced deion optics that they would sell. March was born in 05 or so and the race was on. we have stuff like 8 -80x now. and just 15 years ago they said it was impossible.

 

[307]

From what I understand plastic is the next big thing in glass.

 

[RCB]

I realize this is not at all what you’re talking about... But after a year of using a cheap Nikon 3-9x scope that came packaged with my Savage 11 (first hunting rifle), I decided to upgrade to a Leupold VX-3i. 3.5-10x. Same objective size (40mm). The Nikon was probably about $100 if it were to be sold alone. The Nikon goes for 3 to 4x as much.

I can’t tell much difference yet. Granted I haven’t compared them rigorously, but after a day at the range I didn’t notice anything different. If nothing else, at least I have a warranty?

Given this, I have a hard time seeing myself go any higher than the Vx-3 price level, in the future. I’m just not seeing the return on value. Maybe I just haven’t seen the light yet.

 

[Midwest.Bushlore]

I could see the day when conventional optics we use today will be superseded by electronics. Just as optics like the Aimpoint and Eotoch have supplanted irons for most purposes and NV and FLIR are common on the battlefield, the future of sporting optics may well be something like SoCal describes; integrated thermal, ballistic computation, RADAR/LIDAR, an ability to process wavelengths above and below the ones we can see with our eyes, etc. Think of the Predator's visual system from the old Arnie film. We maybe be able to use long wave radiation to see through fog, smoke and light cover, and maybe electronic image stabilization.

Will this make hunting with such equipment "unsporting"? I dunno. People went from stones to Atlatls, and then from Atlatls to bows, then bows to primitive firearms, and from primitive firearms to high powered magnums and 12X optics; probably most went joyfully but I'm sure there was some curmudgeon that going from sticks to Atlatls ruined the purity of the experience.

 

[Desk Jockey]

^^^this.

I am sure the scope and bino companies will continue to innovate and we will get a level of performance improvement. In addition to performance, I am sure the optics will get lighter and more durable, and what is cutting edge today will foodchain down the price points over time.

I think the biggest change will come from electronic image processing in various forms. Range, angles and location/gps for starters but eventually a system that will be in its essence, a camera and a display. Electronic scopes at first with permissible image enhancement and data enriched display - think that even a pretty basic video camera today can do IR and face recognition - that can pick out movement or even animals on the landscape. Next, Imagine putting a gizmo on a tripod and then sitting back while you scan around the valley on an iPad like display and take in the view of a whole valley from your Sleeping bag or even further away.

By then, you will have “trad” optics hunters that use old school binos and spotting scopes as a point of pride.

 

[Wan2BmountainMan]

In short, not according to any company’s marketing strategy

 

[Trial153]

Just my opinion. Referencing only alpaha glass from the top handful of companies ....It would surprise me to be a measurable over say a 5 year period. Over ten ...maybe.

 

[elkstabber]

I think there is a lot of ground to be gained. Just looking at Swarovski there are big differences within their current line. The SLC vs EL bino reveals the field flattening. The field flattening is a really big deal according to most guys that use them (I haven't looked through the ELs). The edge to edge clarity of Swarovski's least expensive bino (the SLC) is WAY ahead of the edge to edge clarity of Vortex/NIkon/etc's best bino. So I think there is a lot of ground between the big 3 (Swarovski, Leica, and Zeiss) and the rest. I think we'll see steady gains in optical quality, which will benefit all of us.

Just within the last two(?) years Swarovski brought to market the BTX spotting scopes. For years guys had been mounting two spotters (Docter) next to each other, effectively making really big binos. Now the BTX system allows a customer to switch out objective size and comfortably look at spotting scope distances using both eyes. Nobody else has anything similar - yet. I'll probably never be able to afford a BTX but lots of people are buying them.

I'm absolute certain that the top companies are working on optics right now that will surprise us in a few years.

 

[Antarctica]

We reached the point that conventional optics couldn't be significantly improved upon about ten years ago with the advances (and now a relative plateau) in coatings. The aforementioned BTX scope being an interesting and useful 'improvement', but not really a huge technological advance. Its surprising that it hadn't been built and sold sooner.

One can now realize most of those gains at a fraction of what most top end optics sell for. Its an 80-90% solution that is probably 150% better that what you could get for top dollar in the 80's.

Technology wise, yes you can do a whole lot better, but the cost of that marginal improvement places it beyond the commercial marketplace. Those improvement's also tend to be on platforms that are far from 'portable' in the sense that we, as hunters, expect.

Frankly, we reached 'good enough', or maybe more correctly, 'far better than any of us need' a good bit ago. Many of us are obsessing over stuff we'd never miss if we didn't think we could buy it.

Just an opinion. Feel free to dismiss it.

 

[Thunder head]

These things can be finicky. Its a mystery that if you can predict it youll be very wealthy.

How many wildcat cartridges are there? How many never take off like the 6.5 creedmore has?

I agree that for hunting as we practice it today. I cant see then getting much better than they already are. But who knows what the hunting public while buy into. I wish I knew.

 

[fire652]

We reached the point that conventional optics couldn't be significantly improved upon about ten years ago with the advances (and now a relative plateau) in coatings. The aforementioned BTX scope being an interesting and useful 'improvement', but not really a huge technological advance. Its surprising that it hadn't been built and sold sooner.

One can now realize most of those gains at a fraction of what most top end optics sell for. Its an 80-90% solution that is probably 150% better that what you could get for top dollar in the 80's.

Technology wise, yes you can do a whole lot better, but the cost of that marginal improvement places it beyond the commercial marketplace. Those improvement's also tend to be on platforms that are far from 'portable' in the sense that we, as hunters, expect.

Frankly, we reached 'good enough', or maybe more correctly, 'far better than any of us need' a good bit ago. Many of us are obsessing over stuff we'd never miss if we didn't think we could buy it.

Just an opinion. Feel free to dismiss it.

I think your right. The bro while nice is a nitch piece mainly for coues deer hunting and some mule deer spots but that’s just my opinion. I will be taking the btx with a 65mm scope on my next coues deer hunt but I’m an optic junky as well


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[Where's Bruce?]

Next they'll be introducing sound and optics that utilize digital HD laser and camera technology to provide you augmented images and sounds projected onto glasses you wear like shades. A control switch will enable you to zoom in, zoom out...turn up the volume and even record the entire event. The guy lugging a big spotting scope and binos will be laughed at as an oldschooler.

 

[Rich M]

I realize this is not at all what you’re talking about... But after a year of using a cheap Nikon 3-9x scope that came packaged with my Savage 11 (first hunting rifle), I decided to upgrade to a Leupold VX-3i. 3.5-10x. Same objective size (40mm). The Nikon was probably about $100 if it were to be sold alone. The Leupold goes for 3 to 4x as much.

I can’t tell much difference yet. Granted I haven’t compared them rigorously, but after a day at the range I didn’t notice anything different. If nothing else, at least I have a warranty?

Given this, I have a hard time seeing myself go any higher than the Vx-3 price level, in the future. I’m just not seeing the return on value. Maybe I just haven’t seen the light yet.

Interesting - I think scopes pretty much start at the VX-3 level and go up from there.

The little things are what makes em diff - comfort and ease of viewing, eye box, ability to shoot without being centered on your rifle (some scopes will have diff impacts based on how you hold your head), low light, clarity, focus, color resolution (some scopes are bright but white stuff out), better internal parts, ability to take a bump/drop/fall, etc.

Maybe you'll notice a diff, maybe not. That VX3i is a good scope tho.

As for the question of improving optics - there will always be a continual expansion of technology and better products. Will we as people be able to see the improvements? That will depend on our eyes and perceptions.

 

[fire652]

Next they'll be introducing sound and optics that utilize digital HD laser and camera technology to provide you augmented images and sounds projected onto glasses you wear like shades. A control switch will enable you to zoom in, zoom out...turn up the volume and even record the entire event. The guy lugging a big spotting scope and binos will be laughed at as an oldschooler.

This is what I’m afraid is going to happen


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