Hearing Bugles Until Your Last Hunt, By Weston Adkins

[Voyageur]

From information obtained thru links you forwarded to me I'm working with The Ear Plug Store to determine the best type of plug for me to use big game hunting. Hope to get them ordered today. As I'm doing this and wondering why I hadn't taken action earlier to protect my hearing I realized I've often used the excuse of "the damage is already done" or "I'm in my 60's. What's the use to start now?"
Curious what your response is to those lines of reasoning?
Thanks.

 

[westonadkins]

From information obtained thru links you forwarded to me I'm working with The Ear Plug Store to determine the best type of plug for me to use big game hunting. Hope to get them ordered today. As I'm doing this and wondering why I hadn't taken action earlier to protect my hearing I realized I've often used the excuse of "the damage is already done" or "I'm in my 60's. What's the use to start now?"
Curious what your response is to those lines of reasoning?
Thanks.

Good question. A lot of people think along those lines, so I'm glad you brought it up.

If you've got hearing left, you've got hearing to protect. Unless a person has profound hearing loss (i.e. is completely deaf), then the damage is not done, it is in process.

I always talk about hearing loss having two parts -- loss of volume and loss of clarity. Typically, with more loss of volume comes more loss of clarity. So as hearing loss gets worse and worse, I can turn hearing aids up and up, but because of a lack of clarity, understanding doesn't improve. "I can hear, but I can't understand." This is when we start looking at cochlear implants. So, less hearing loss is better and will lead to improved functional hearing with devices if that is necessary. And if hearing devices aren't indicated, then there is definitely hearing to be preserved.

 

[Voyageur]

Thank you. Excellent explanation.

 

[CoffeeGoat]

Not crazy at all -- in fact a great observation! This is true in hearing. The association between hearing loss and cognitive decline has been known for some time, but Dr. Frank Lin out of Hopkins has really pioneered this area recently. I remember his 2013 article getting some air time on the nightly news.

The thing to remember here is that association is not causation, so we can't make the leap that hearing loss causes dementia. Dr. Lin describes the four working theories on the link between hearing loss and dementia in this article and succinctly goes through them here. They are 1) cognitive load, where the brain is working overtime to figure out the poor auditory signal, so it strains other brain systems, 2) changes in brain structure / function, where if you don't use it, you lose it, 3) social isolation, where people who have hearing loss stop engaging socially which adversely affects cognition and 4), a common cause for both dementia and hearing loss like small vessel disease from hypertension, diabetes, etc. Of course, it might be a combination of them all.

Can hearing aids and/or cochlear implants stop or reverse this? This is an area of current study, but the preliminary answers are assuring (e.g. hearing aid article, cochlear implant article). What I see in these articles is consistent with what I see with my patients as a whole.

That is just one more reason to protect long term hearing. Thanks for bringing that up!

Ah, the problem with health "Correlation/Causation," there are time and ethical complications of running a test to isolate the variable and apply a treatment to observe a statistically significant effect. We can and probably should attempt to treat it if we've got good correlation, and it gives me good ammunition to encourage grandma to wear her hearing aids!

It also raises the question of "activism" in the realm of normalizing the use of suppressors. If we know that there are more broad spectrum impacts of hearing loss perhaps it's something we as the hunting community should get behind more intensely. Conservation groups (Ducks unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk, etc) are invested in the future of hunters because we care about the critters and the environment they live in - perhaps they should care about all of the members going deaf. You'd think California would be all over legalizing suppressors due to the health effects - I suppose they care less about the hunters and more about the critters. Probably a little late this time around, but I'll be getting behind the Hearing Protection Act.

 

[CoffeeGoat]

@westonadkins This paper just dropped today. Pretty opportune time to find a treatment for tinnitus. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but looks interesting.

 

[JohnnyFuego]

Weston Adkins (@westonadkins ) is an audiologist currently working at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, specializing in diagnostics and cochlear implants. He earned his Doctorate in Audiology from the University of Iowa in 2017. He grew up in South Dakota hunting pheasants and whitetail and spent summers in college rock climbing and backpacking. Combining these two passions, he is now an aspiring backpack hunter.

Give him a warm Rokslide welcome and enjoy his article on hearing loss and protection.

Hearing Bugles Until Your Last Hunt

 

[JohnnyFuego]

Such a great reminder of the principle that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

 

[JohnB]

Thoughts on valved ear plugs Weston? I've got these and they seem to be working pretty good for me.

https://www.orvis.com/p/orvis-adaptive-hearing-protection/2TJB?item_code=2TJB4200&adv=621658&cm_mmc=plas-_-tm-x-brand-us-pla-_-tm-x-brand-x-x-x-x-_-&gclid=Cj0KCQjwt4X8BRCPARIsABmcnOoYR68TEMPTDWNQv3JrABdTeQHhDPxBu9XshdGlw1Wq3JkdFspuvpgaAnE2EALw_wcB

I did have one ear ringer when I was standing next to a buddy when he shot but typically I'm further away from any other hunters. I don't use these at the range or with my deer rifle but they seem alright for 12 guage upland shooting. I think they'd suck in a duck blind too.

Thanks for the great article. I've got a couple buddies that don't take ear pro that seriously and are already feeling the effects.

 

[RockyMountainHunter]

Have a good friend who lost hearing at the range from not having good enough ear plugs. Bottom line is wear ear protection. I like these for the field because they are easy to rest on my neck until it is "go time".

https://www.amazon.com/Earplugs-Shooting-Lightweight-Replacement-Construction/dp/B08DCB5F5L/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=silicone+ear+plugs+neck&qid=1602392060&sr=8-2

 

[JohnB]

I use similar for deer/bear hunting but for upland hunting I want something that is always in my ears. If I stopped to throw ear plugs in I'd never shoot a bird.

 

[westonadkins]

@westonadkins This paper just dropped today. Pretty opportune time to find a treatment for tinnitus. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but looks interesting.

I'll have to read this when I get back to work so I can read the whole thing.


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[westonadkins]

Thoughts on valved ear plugs Weston? I've got these and they seem to be working pretty good for me.

https://www.orvis.com/p/orvis-adaptive-hearing-protection/2TJB?item_code=2TJB4200&adv=621658&cm_mmc=plas-_-tm-x-brand-us-pla-_-tm-x-brand-x-x-x-x-_-&gclid=Cj0KCQjwt4X8BRCPARIsABmcnOoYR68TEMPTDWNQv3JrABdTeQHhDPxBu9XshdGlw1Wq3JkdFspuvpgaAnE2EALw_wcB

I did have one ear ringer when I was standing next to a buddy when he shot but typically I'm further away from any other hunters. I don't use these at the range or with my deer rifle but they seem alright for 12 guage upland shooting. I think they'd suck in a duck blind too.

Thanks for the great article. I've got a couple buddies that don't take ear pro that seriously and are already feeling the effects.

These passive non-linear devices with the valves do not have a lot of research around their effectiveness, which is not reassuring to me. I was able to find two articles on it, and I wasn't impressed with the attenuation they provide. I will say that they do provide more attenuation as the sound level goes up, but it potentially isn't enough to be effective. Obviously depends on your gun and how much attenuation you need. When I get back to work, I'll share some of the figures so you can check it out.


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[westonadkins]

Thoughts on valved ear plugs Weston? I've got these and they seem to be working pretty good for me.

https://www.orvis.com/p/orvis-adaptive-hearing-protection/2TJB?item_code=2TJB4200&adv=621658&cm_mmc=plas-_-tm-x-brand-us-pla-_-tm-x-brand-x-x-x-x-_-&gclid=Cj0KCQjwt4X8BRCPARIsABmcnOoYR68TEMPTDWNQv3JrABdTeQHhDPxBu9XshdGlw1Wq3JkdFspuvpgaAnE2EALw_wcB

I did have one ear ringer when I was standing next to a buddy when he shot but typically I'm further away from any other hunters. I don't use these at the range or with my deer rifle but they seem alright for 12 guage upland shooting. I think they'd suck in a duck blind too.

Thanks for the great article. I've got a couple buddies that don't take ear pro that seriously and are already feeling the effects.

Here's that figure and the link. If I used that kind of hearing protection, I'd be asking the manufacturer for some specific data from their product and make my decision from there. Overall, I recommend active hearing protection for the situations you're describing.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b8b4/608e56fa1f13e5cc959d5d206ec88fadbc7b.pdf

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[Voyageur]

@westonadkins Based off what you've posted above I'm guessing these ear plugs don't offer enough protection?

 

[westonadkins]

@westonadkins Based off what you've posted above I'm guessing these ear plugs don't offer enough protection?
View attachment 227580

The NRR isn't bad if they are adequately occluding the canal, but that warning doesn't give me confidence in the product for use around firearms.


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[Voyageur]

Using my layman's intuition that's what I suspected as well.
Thanks for the prompt response @westonadkins Before going the custom fitted route I'm going to give these a try:

Moldex BattlePlugs Impulse Noise Reusable Ear Plugs (NRR 9/24)

Now an authorized hearing protector for use by soldiers and Department of the Army civilians! Not all noise reduction is the same. Hearing protection for constant sound isn't the same as hearing protection for impulse noises such as gunfire. Moldex understands that difference, and Moldex...

www.earplugstore.com

Also, I'm scheduled to see an audiologist in December....thanks to the motivation provided by this thread.

 

[westonadkins]

Using my layman's intuition that's what I suspected as well.
Thanks for the prompt response @westonadkins Before going the custom fitted route I'm going to give these a try:

Moldex BattlePlugs Impulse Noise Reusable Ear Plugs (NRR 9/24)

Now an authorized hearing protector for use by soldiers and Department of the Army civilians! Not all noise reduction is the same. Hearing protection for constant sound isn't the same as hearing protection for impulse noises such as gunfire. Moldex understands that difference, and Moldex...

www.earplugstore.com

Also, I'm scheduled to see an audiologist in December....thanks to the motivation provided by this thread.

That's great! Thanks for the feedback. Let me know if I can help in any way


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[goathunter]

Silly question but if you have a bad seal with active universal fit (tree style?) plugs, could it actually enhance a rifle shot and make it louder/cause more damage?

 

[westonadkins]

Silly question but if you have a bad seal with active universal fit (tree style?) plugs, could it actually enhance a rifle shot and make it louder/cause more damage?

Interesting question. There's a paper on those "filtered" earplugs (the ones that suppress more as the sound level goes up), and they found that certain plugs actually enhanced the sound levels by up to 5 dB at lower levels. It seems counterintuitive but possible at least in that instance. I'm not sure if it translates to the scenario you're referencing though. My instinct is to say probably not. Did you have something like that happen to you?


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[goathunter]

Interesting question. There's a paper on those "filtered" earplugs (the ones that suppress more as the sound level goes up), and they found that certain plugs actually enhanced the sound levels by up to 5 dB at lower levels. It seems counterintuitive but possible at least in that instance. I'm not sure if it translates to the scenario you're referencing though. My instinct is to say probably not. Did you have something like that happen to you?


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No just ordered the SoundGear Instant Fit Shooters and my question was kind of an afterthought. I understand they should protect your ears even without batteries, but I guess my question more directly is could they somehow fail and amplify when there not supposed to.