Help with Accuracy issue before big hunt

[derek-tikka]

I was hoping this group could help me figure out an issue I am having. I am a new shooter, so my issues could just be from ignorance. I went from completely confident in my rifle, to totally not confident. Here are the details.

I sighted in the rifle at 100 yards over two sessions. I was pretty happy with the results. Then I replaced the elevation dial with a CDS dial that I got from Leupold (it just lets you dial in the range and aim dead on). I went to the range to test it out and this is what happened.

My Setup:

• Tikka T3x 7mm Mag.
• Leupold 3.5-10x Scope (Talley Mounts, don’t seem loose)
• 2 heavy bean bag rests (front and back of rifle)
• CDS dial that was set to my exact ammo (Federal Premium 160gr. Barnes - albeit a different elevation and temperature)

What happened:

• I set the dial to 300 yards and hit a 12″ gong at 300 yards 3 times in a row. (awesome, I thought!)
• Since all 3 shots were about 4-5″ to the right, I clicked the windage dial 4 clicks to the right. I then set the dial to 100 yards and took 3 shots at my 100 yard target. Good group, still ever so slightly right, so I decided to adjust 1 more click to the right. I then shot 2 more shots and they were right on target.
• I then set the dial to 300 yards and took a shot at the gong at 300 yards. I missed with this shot.
• I then went through a box of 20 rounds, only hitting the gong randomly 1 more time. A couple times I set up on the 100 yard target and hit mostly dead on, but had a few flyers there too (maybe my aim, but seemed pretty far off)

Here are my theories of why I couldn't hit anything:

• Maybe the barrel got way too warm? All of the shooting (~25 rounds) was done within about 30 minutes and it was hot to the touch.
• I realized when I was done shooting that I had still yet to clean the barrel since it was new. So the gun had seen 60 rounds without cleaning. (at about 40 rounds I hit the gong 3 times in a row, but maybe some major fouling happened after the 7 shots after that causing me to miss.)
• I could have been flinching a bit, but I doubt it because at 100 yards I was pretty much dead on, and I really took my time

I don’t expect a solid answer, but I would love any advice. I am pretty anal when it comes to details so this is driving me crazy. My hunt is about 2 weeks away, so this is really bothering me.

 

[Apollo117]

Two things come to mind.

1. You must have gotten the barrel really hot. 25 rounds in 30 minutes is quite a bit too many rounds in a short period of time for the thin barrel on a Tikka. Two five round groups in 30 minutes with a thin barrel is better to manage heat.

2. The adjustments on your scope may not be accurate. The scope might say 1/4 MOA, but it might be closer to 1/3. Also, the erector may not move accurate to the adjustments you made due to something like a weak spring. E.g. you adjust 1 MOA, but the erector only moves 1/2 MOA until the spring is jostled (by the recoil, etc.) and then it moves the full 1 MOA. This used to be more common with older scopes, but it still happens with some modern scopes.

The first is easily solved. Just shoot slower and wait longer between groups. The second can be solved by verifying the accuracy of of the scope adjustments with something like the Box Test.

A couple more thoughts.

Do you have a torque wrench? It would be helpful with verifying your action screws, base screws, and ring screws are tightened correctly.

Was there anything (sling or swivel stud) between the rifle stock and sand bags?

 

[Brendan]

Good points above:

Way too many shots in a short period of time. With the thin barrel on a Tikka, I prefer 3 round groups. Take your time, get comfortable behind the gun, make every shot count. I shoot 3, and then let cool for 10 or until barrel is back to ambient temps.

Did you re-verify you were still on at 100 yards after going for the gong? I would always start with a 100 yard sight-in target until you're holding a group around the bullseye at 100 yards, every time. And, I would make sure you can repeatedly dial to your max range, then back to 100, and make sure that zero does not change.

Another test is to shoot at 100, but dial for 300. Draw a vertical line on the target using a plumb bob or level, and make sure you still hit on the line as you dial (You'll hit higher as you dial further)

Basically - verify you're on, verify your scope is level, and verify repeatability in tracking. And, make sure everything is torqued correctly first.

 

[Lawnboi]

Shoot your 100yd zero. With more than 3 shots. And go from there. Let it cool between shots. Be patient, dry fire a crap load while it’s. Be honest, there are no flyers while your doing this.


If your rifle will hold a 4” group, at 100, no reason it shouldn’t be hitting that gong at 300 unless it’s a scope rifle or a you issue.

I’d be seeing what my gun really does at 100 yds with a spaced out 10 round group, then I’d start trying to diagnose problems from there.

 

[derek-tikka]

Thanks for the tips. I think you are right the barrel was way too hot. I didn't really know that was a thing (newbie mistake). I also noticed some heat waves in the scope, which dawned on me later what that was. There was some waving grass in the way, so it made the heat waves less noticeable at the time.

@Apollo117 - Adjusting the dial when I was sighting it in seemed pretty accurate, so I am hoping the MOA adjustments are fairly true. I ended up taking all the clicks I added back off. So it should be set the same as it was when I hit the gong at the beginning of the round.

@Brendan - I did re-verify the 100 yard 0. With the dial set to 100 yards, it was very accurate at 100 yards. That's why I was a bit confused I was missing the gong. However, probably every single time, I would turn around and shoot the gong after the 100 yard target, so maybe it was too hot again?

@Lawnboi - The rifle was holding a small group at 100 yards. In the middle of the shoot there were a few flyers that were probably 8-10" off at 100 yards. No way I pulled them that much, so maybe was overheating.

Unfortunately bow season opens in 2 days so I can't go back out to the land to shoot again. Hopefully things are pretty close and I can get it adjusted after my flight to Idaho. I guess a few good frustrating lessons learned on this one...

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Torque everything to specs. Then you can't blame it on anything being loose.

100 yards: shoot at zero. 2) Next shot 8 MOA up. 3) Next shot 8 MOA right. 4) Next shot 8 MOA down. 5) Next shot 8 MOA left. 5th shot should be right at your zero. Good way to verify turret clicks and will give you confidence in your scope dials. I check everyone of my scopes in this fashion. This way I can't blame that part of the system.

What I've learned shooting at distance: stated mv and bc stated by manufacturers can be generous. Those specs are accurate within their environmental parameters and their system (gun, scope, etc.). IME I can be spot on a 100 yards. At 500 yards 1/2-1 MOA low. I shoot it a 2nd time to verify. Only then do I adjust velocity to correspond to what my bullet is actually doing within those environmental parameters. Problems is the bullet will act differently when the said parameters change. For this reason I don't care for CDS dials. Some love them and do very well with them. Point is, I was chasing the POI until I realized my shots were fine but the POI was changing based on my environment. After I incorporated environmental parameters into my LR shooting, using a Kestrel as of recently, did my LR shooting improve dramatically.

If you feel confident you are doing your part consider having another trusted experienced shooter shoot your rifle. If they are having the same problem then I would lean more towards a problem with the system vs. the shooter.

Yes that is a lot of shots within a 30 minute time frame.

TIP: Have someone load the rifle for you. Have them throw a snap cap in their every now and then. Good way to learn if you are flinching or anticipating the shot.

FWIW

 

[willfrye027]

Make sure you are holding your scope level or close. If it’s not level, and you spin the CDS dial, you point of impact will stray off to one side instead of purely vertical. This is in addition to checking what others have mentioned. And yeah way too many shots in a short period.

 

[derek-tikka]

Thanks @Mule3006Elk and @willfrye027. I will consider that feedback. Waiting for more ammo to show up in the mail for my next try.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

Do you have a known good scope you can try?

 

[amassi]

30 rounds of 7 mag out of a 6 pound rifle with a branding iron for a barrel rarely yields good results.

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[Treeseat]

I agree with others.....hot barrel was likely a factor and check bases for movement/torque.

 

[Stefan]

Check to make sure the elevation on the scope is working correctly. You might have a tracking issue from the turret change.

I doubt it is an issue with heat or a dirty barrel.
My first day at the range with a Tikka T3 Light I put 80 rounds through that wonderful little 30-06 and was running it from 100 to 700 yards. It did what it was supposed to do.

IMO with that small of a round count you should still be on a 12" gong at 300. Just my .02

 

[TxxAgg]

Did you notice heat mirage off the end of the barrel. It may have still been shooting straight but you were aiming at the wrong spot (unknowingly)

 

[Stefan]

Let us know if you figure it out.

 

[General RE LEE]

I own 3 Tikkas and I let the barrel cool 5 minutes between shots. It take me about 15-17 minutes to shoot 3 shots. It keeps barrel temps about ambient temperature and it slows me down and makes every shot count.


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[HiMtnHntr]

I agree with what was said about going to 100. Shoot a good group at 100 and go out from there. Dry firing in between letting the barrel cool is good advice, or take another rifle.

 

[General RE LEE]

I agree with what was said about going to 100. Shoot a good group at 100 and go out from there. Dry firing in between letting the barrel cool is good advice, or take another rifle.

I always take another rifle sometimes 2 extra rifles. This always keeps those thin hunting rifle barrels at ambient temps for each shot.


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[derek-tikka]

Thanks for all the advice. Here is a quick follow up. I never did get super confident in my rifle before the hunt, but I did killed a nice bull at 350 yards. The bull dropped right where it stood and never moved again.



I guess the scope was close enough! The day before the hunt, I was still shooting poor groups at 100 yards. I let the barrel cool plenty that time. It could have just been user error and lack of experience on my part. It's easier to place a shot when your adrenaline is pumping and you are not thinking about recoil!

 

[Stefan]

Congratulations!

 

[Rich M]

I never did get super confident in my rifle before the hunt.

The day before the hunt, I was still shooting poor groups at 100 yards. I let the barrel cool plenty that time. It could have just been user error and lack of experience on my part. It's easier to place a shot when your adrenaline is pumping and you are not thinking about recoil!

There is your answer. I have similar issues with a 3006 so bought a 243 and shoot it a lot better.

Work on your rifle shooting basics and see if you can conquer the fear of the gun/recoil/muzzleblast.

If having difficulties - can always fold up a towel for softening the blow at the shoulder. Works for me.

And CONGRATULATIONS on a great shot on a nice looking bull elk! For a noob, you are doing great!