Helping a newb pick between at .45 and .50 caliber

[OG DramaLlama]

Inspired by Robby's series on building a long range/multi state muzzleloader I wanted to see if I could get some further advice and or experience from other members on choosing between a .45 and .50 caliber.

I'm specifically referring to this portion of the article.

"This one's controversial and gets the hackles of more than a few writers up. Having killed big mule deer with both .50 and .45 caliber, I recommend .45 caliber for mule deer. Why? In building a gun to hunt any state, I need to be able to accurately shoot conicals and sabots. Most of the country allows sabots so most guns are built with a fast twist (1:30 or so) as these stabilize sabots very well. These guns can also shoot conicals, but typically the conical has to be long (which equates to heavy) to stabilize well. In many years of muzzleloading, I've never been able to contradict this fact and the only conicals that shoot accurately for me are heavy- in the 400-600 grain range in .50 and .54 caliber guns. This means kick and lots of it (I had to add 1 pound of buckshot to a hollow in the stock of one gun to tolerate .50 caliber, 450 grain conicals)."

Given that I will be focused on my home state of Idaho for most of my hunting having accuracy with conicals is fairly important.

Looking seriously at the Knight Ultralight. Per the data from Precision Rifle and contributors on this forum to me that with the 1:28 twist I will still be in the 400+ grain range. Fairly confident that sabots will be good to go based on all the excellent data provided from Sabotloader, but a little unsure where I would stand with conicals.

For my centerfire rifles and bow I have always been very dependent on ballistic/load data provided by manufactures and software programs (Vortex LRBC, TAP, Archers Advantage, Hornady Ballistic calculator) However, I am struggling to find or properly use similar data for
muzzleloaders. Any past experience helps/tips/suggestions/opinions to get me pointed
In the right direction is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

-Josh



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[Bar]

Another option for a .50 cal is the Thor bullet. It's a full bore conical made by Barnes, but sold by Thor. A 100% copper bullet that's very accurate at all ranges. It comes in 250gr and 300gr. Being copper it's longer than a lead conical of the same weight. No problen with a 1-28 twist.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

Another option for a .50 cal is the Thor bullet. It's a full bore conical made by Barnes, but sold by Thor. A 100% copper bullet that's very accurate at all ranges. It comes in 250gr and 300gr. Being copper it's longer than a lead conical of the same weight. No problen with a 1-28 twist.

That would be a great option for other states and I will make sure to look into further. Unfortunately, Idaho has this gem of a rule:

Is loaded with a patched round ball OR a conical, unjacketed projectile comprised wholly of lead or lead alloy. No sabots.

Thanks for the input.


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[Bar]

Oh, ok. I wasn't aware you couldn't shoot copper. I like that law. I wish Colorado was more primitive.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

Update on my research.....

Spoke to Knight and Precision Bullets about options for Idaho and given the restriction in the state, things are a bit more tricky. Precision Bullets is no longer manufacturing a full lead conical. From what I gathered on this forum and speaking with other folks way more knowledgeable than me it would seem it is more practical to get a more Idaho specific weapon....50 cal.

With the Knight's twist at 1:28" I am looking at heavy 400-450 grn on the caliber with an un-jacketed lead conical. This should mean less velocity down range, correct?? Pure lead having some issues at high speeds. Given a majority of my hunting will, initially, be in Idaho it seems to me that a start with a rifle with a lower twist to maintain better accuracy in a .50 with some of these larger conical that I see available. Secondarily, the peep restriction also keep my effective range in so maybe it is satisfactory.

Any Idaho hunters have some thoughts/experience on these....Looking at the Pryodex RS (Granular)

With a Knight here is what I would be looking at:

Hornady Great Plains 385
Powerbelts 405
Knight Hydracon 445
White Powerpunch 400/440
No excuses 460

In all, looks like I probably should just explain to my wife why I need two rifles now....

 

[Bar]

250gr conicals shoot great in a 1-28 twist. Don't think you have to shoot a heavy conical unless you're shooting long distance. Which you won't be doing with a hunting peep sight.

Are you hunting for anything bigger than a deer?

 

[5MilesBack]

Keep in mind that if you want to hunt elk with it you'll want the .50 cal. That's minimum in CO, not sure about Idaho.

 

[robby denning]

Keep in mind that if you want to hunt elk with it you'll want the .50 cal. That's minimum in CO, not sure about Idaho.

You're right, Idaho is the same and I think all Western states require 50 cal for elk.

Thanks Elkoholic for reading the article and your post illustrates why muzzleloaders are intimidating to so many people- way too many choices in gun and components.

Cecil at Precision never told me this summer that he wasn't offering full-lead conicals anymore. Because I'm shooting sabots this year, he probably just didn't think of it. Bummer. I have only shot his and T/C's full lead bullets and found his were better. Can't offer opinion on the others you asked about.

I can tell you in shooting the PR conicals that you don't need to worry about velocity affecting full lead in a muzz. You'll be lucky to hit 1800 fps with any conical in my experience. I shot full lead sabots to 2150 in that article and no accuracy problems there.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

For my immediate needs this will be used to hunt Mule deer as I use sharp sticks and high powered bullets for Elk. However, .50 restriction for Elk is probably one of the biggest reasons that I am leaning that direction...Given my addiction to Wapiti it is hard to think that I won't be tempted to go that direction in the near future. My guess is that I will build a .50 for my first smokepole as it will be more in-line what I'm looking for now As I am new to the points race there will be some time before I really start getting very serious about mule deer hunting other states.

Was able to put my hands on a couple Knights this weekend at Sportsmans....Really liked the feel of them, especially the UL. My guess it will put some punishment on the ol' shoulder....Want to put some other options (If I can find them) in my hands before I make a final decision. T/C, Savage, Remington...Looking to have everything in order so can start experimenting and putting lead down range early next year so I can find a comfortable effective range for 2017 season.

The precision news was a bit of bummer as well with all the good info gained it seemed like I was letting them down not buying something...Was pumped to try out the Keith Nose and the Ultimate SS.

Bar....Thanks for the heads up on the lighter 250grn with 1:28"....That should/would work for deer in Idaho without having me to load up a 440 gran shoulder punch.

 

[robby denning]

Elkoholic, you'll do fine with a 50 cal. I shot the Knight UL with 250 grain bullets and was surprised at how well it handled recoil for that light of a gun. I din't get to shoot anything heavy in it though

 

[Bar]

Heavy bullets are a vicious circle. Not only do you have the weight of the bullet punching your shoulder, but you need heavier powder loads to get any kind of velocity too.

 

[mtfallon]

Keep in mind that in Idaho you can't use 209 primers either!

 

[Bar]

Shoot a Hawken.

 

[ole hunter]

Oregon requires open ignition or the NW version for muzzleloaders ,, I like my Knight Ultra lite .50 cal With any bullet over 350 grain for elk, all the
different bullets I have tried shoot good from it ..