Left Impact w/ Fixed Crawl?

[TX_Diver]

Looking to try a fixed crawl to shorten my point on a bit. 19" satori w/ 45lb long uukha gobis drawn to about 30.5". Current point on is about 46 yards or so.

When I shoot normally my gap at 30 requires holding around 30" below my target at 30. To get my point on at 30 I have to place my tab probably 5/8" below the bottom nock point. This puts the nock pretty high up on my face and into my cheek and typically causes the group to be about 8" left of my normal POI. I normally shoot a vertical bow but will mess around with canting it a bit.

Is this to be expected from facial pressure or am I setting this up wrong?

 

[LostArra]

I'm not an expert but I've experienced this and read some on the topic.
Crawling down the string can change the tune of the bow/arrow making the arrow now a bit stiff which results in impacts to the left. It couldn't hurt to try a weaker spine. A longer arrow would weaken the spine but change your sight picture.

Hopefully Beendare or others more knowledgeable than I am will chime in.
I could be totally wrong and frequently am according to my wife.

 

[Beendare]

I'm not an expert but I've experienced this and read some on the topic.
Crawling down the string can change the tune of the bow/arrow making the arrow now a bit stiff which results in impacts to the left. It couldn't hurt to try a weaker spine. A longer arrow would weaken the spine but change your sight picture.

LA nailed it

With that big of a crawl, you are effectively making the arrow much stiffer.

The guys I know that string walk try to keep their crawls under half an inch. When you get up over that it really affects arrow flight.

I shot a tournament with Alan Eagleton (world class shooter and great guy) , who was string walking. He tunes for a mid range crawl. FWIW, he had a slight wobble on the far end of his crawls but he said it wasn’t a big deal accuracy wise with FPs. He would rather have the better aiming down the arrow over perfect flight.…and he uses bigger 4” fletching when stringwalking- makes sense.

I would SW or use a fixed crawl for bowhunting but it really screwed up my BH arrow flight. A guy can tune BHs to a fixed crawl…but a wide range of distances stringwalking…not so much.

You can drop your arrow weight….or go to a longer arrow…both will shorten your crawls.

 

[Blackcow]

I’ll add one more thing to the stiff arrow, that I noticed FOR ME, is that with sw or fixed crawl as the nock moves higher to your eye the further right it moves. The more prominent your cheek bone is the more it moves. You may not be noticing it, but your arrow is now pointing left, even if your point is on your spot. It gets harder to notice if you also cant more than a little.

 

[TX_Diver]

I’ll add one more thing to the stiff arrow, that I noticed FOR ME, is that with sw or fixed crawl as the nock moves higher to your eye the further right it moves. The more prominent your cheek bone is the more it moves. You may not be noticing it, but your arrow is now pointing left, even if your point is on your spot. It gets harder to notice if you also cant more than a little.

That actually makes a lot of sense and seems most likely. I hadn't considered the spine also though so I'll throw a different point on and see what happens.

 

[Novashooter]

I'm kind of new to bows, so take this for what it's worth. In the past I've been a gap shooter, which was fine for bow fishing. As I want to try hunting with mine, I was not getting as much improvement as I liked to see from daily practice the way I had been shooting. I read about stringwalking, and I found success with it almost immediately. I'm still playing with my setup, and I'm finding there's quite a bit than can be tinkered with. I even have a new bow string that just showed up in the mail today which I'll see how that does.

Right or wrong, in playing with it this is the method I'm finding success with. I needed an anchor point which put the nock of the arrow more inline with my eye. I found that by hooking the base of my thumb around the back of my jaw bone, it puts my fingers in a great position. This is obviously going to vary based on how your face is shaped. Along with that, I'm actually using the arrow for sighting. I don't stay at full draw long, but I'm looking down that arrow for alignment left and right, and my point is the elevation. I'm finding good results with setting my crawl for a 20 yard zero. I guess that's called fixed crawl, which I did not know until now. Mine is at least 5/8" below my nock, and probably more like 1", I'll have to measure. Even if it changes to tune, I don't see why it matters if you always shoot this way. A 20 yard zero is fine to 25 yards. I find one finger on top of my crawl set is about right for 30 yards. It's going to be a long time before I think I'll be comfortable with an over 30 yard shot.

If it makes any difference, this is a Bear Montana longbow.

 

[Novashooter]

LA nailed it

With that big of a crawl, you are effectively making the arrow much stiffer.

The guys I know that string walk try to keep their crawls under half an inch. When you get up over that it really affects arrow flight.

I shot a tournament with Alan Eagleton (world class shooter and great guy) , who was string walking. He tunes for a mid range crawl. FWIW, he had a slight wobble on the far end of his crawls but he said it wasn’t a big deal accuracy wise with FPs. He would rather have the better aiming down the arrow over perfect flight.…and he uses bigger 4” fletching when stringwalking- makes sense.

I would SW or use a fixed crawl for bowhunting but it really screwed up my BH arrow flight. A guy can tune BHs to a fixed crawl…but a wide range of distances stringwalking…not so much.

You can drop your arrow weight….or go to a longer arrow…both will shorten your crawls.

Is this correct? It seems to me that a heavier arrow should shorten your crawl, not lighter. A longer arrow should definitely do it, being as you are essentially raising your aim point.

I've bought both 125 and 200 grain broadheads, and presumably the lower spine arrows should be lighter too, so I plan to try this out for myself.

 

[Beendare]

Is this correct? It seems to me that a heavier arrow should shorten your crawl, not lighter. A longer arrow should definitely do it, being as you are essentially raising your aim point.

I've bought both 125 and 200 grain broadheads, and presumably the lower spine arrows should be lighter too, so I plan to try this out for myself.

It is...and isn't

When I went to a lighter arrow....my PO only slightly increased....but the arc in my arrows trajectory is flatter so my mid range gap is tighter. If I crawl, the crawl is smaller.

Likewise, if you increase arrow weight...or lengthen your arrow...that gives you a shorter point on....which also makes your gaps smaller...and crawls less.

Two ways to accomplish the same thing.

Essentially, big gaps...and long crawls are bad for hunting. The target guys can get away with having their arrows wobble into the target...but we are using BH's and that wobble kills arrow performance on game....so we need a better tune.

Assuming you are tuned with your finger touching the nok, Crawling 5/8" you will notice a strong wobble in your arrow downrange. If you can keep your crawls at 1/2" or less, you can tune for a mid range crawl- like 1/4" ...and have the best of all worlds.

 

[bobinmi]

That much of a crawl shouldn't make a fletched shaft that stiff. I think you were on the edge to start with. I crawl a full inch. I can shoot with fingers under the nock and still get very acceptable arrow flight. There is more going on here if its moving it that far. Just my 2 cents. Worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[Beendare]

That much of a crawl shouldn't make a fletched shaft that stiff. I think you were on the edge to start with. I crawl a full inch. I can shoot with fingers under the nock and still get very acceptable arrow flight. There is more going on here if its moving it that far. Just my 2 cents. Worth exactly what you paid for it.

Bob, So that 1" crawl doesn't affect your BH arrow flight?

 

[Blackcow]

I’ve never had a 1” crawl, but I’ve been down about 5/8”, and I’m usually around 1/4, but I have a fairly high anchor. I’ve never had a problem tuning a broadhead to a crawl. It’s walking that F’s you up with a broadhead.

 

[Novashooter]

I'm guessing this would have to depend on what bow your shooting. There's no way I could get a crawl that low from my Bear Montana. I was trying out some new arrows today. Both 11/32", although one was 50-55# with a 125gr broadhead came in about 505 grains total, and the other a 65-70 with 200gr broadhead came in about 680 grains total. Both full length 32" shafts. I didn't get to start testing them, but taking shots with them with the same fixed crawl, the heavier arrow definitely shoots lower, meaning it needs less crawl at 20 yards. I have my nock set point 5/8" over level. I have my crawl set point about 1" below the bottom of the arrow shaft when nocked. I didn't have my range finder out, but in playing with some 185gr field point arrows, I know with my fingers right under the arrow in a traditional 3 under style, my point on distance is beyond 40 yards, and probably close to 50 yards.

That's all going to change based on bow, arrow, and shooting style/anchor point. I'm already using the highest anchor point I can find that is both consistent and also puts the arrow in the right spot left/right. My question is if your crawl is really as little as 1/4", then why bother? Gap shooting would be so easy at that point.

 

[Blackcow]

I do gap. My short crawl is literally just to keep my gap out of the dirt at 20 yards for coues deer specifically. I have a 31” draw, so for some arrows if full length is 33-34 I don’t need a crawl. I’ve just had the same gaps for so many years that no matter what I’m shooting that’s where I end up or else it feels weird and no matter how much I try and cook the new ones in, I revert back and f up when it matters. Sorry OP. Your problem is probably a combo. Alignment is off some and a bit of spine issue.

 

[bobinmi]

Bob, So that 1" crawl doesn't affect your BH arrow flight?

Perfect flight. The tune is so good at this point that if I had to take a hail mary on a wounded deer I can slide my fingers directly under the nock and have a point on of 55yds and I'll still get good enough flight. I also shoot an ILF though and can adjust tiller with this bow. My last bow I also crawled at least an inch for a 25yd point on and it was a little bit more of a bastard to get tuned without any tiller adjustments but it worked fine after enough tinkering. I think I added an extra string silencer to the lower part of the string and it helped to slow that lower limb just a touch and bring them closer to time.

 

[Beendare]

Perfect flight. The tune is so good at this point that if I had to take a hail mary on a wounded deer I can slide my fingers directly under the nock and have a point on of 55yds and I'll still get good enough flight. I also shoot an ILF though and can adjust tiller with this bow. My last bow I also crawled at least an inch for a 25yd point on and it was a little bit more of a bastard to get tuned without any tiller adjustments but it worked fine after enough tinkering. I think I added an extra string silencer to the lower part of the string and it helped to slow that lower limb just a touch and bring them closer to time.

The one comment that stated every setup is different is dead on.
A long DL on a short bowcreates critcal string angles.

I have a long DL and crawling with a 62” bow doesn’t work well For me arrow flight wise. 64” is better

 

[bobinmi]

If you aren't already using a springy rest, do that next. Switching to a springy a few years ago removed a lot of the tuning drama of a crawl.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I've noticed when I come off my fixed crawl point (I have a nock point tied there) and hold right under my arrow for longer shots, my bow is DRAMTICALLY quieter. I haven't noticed that before. I have it tuned for clean bareshaft flight at my fixed crawl (point on at 25) but was shocked I hadn't noticed that sound difference before last night.

 

[Beendare]

Yep, Stringwalking is louder for sure. You are putting more pressure on one limb by crawling down the string.
Heck split finger is quieter that 3 under.

A guy can tune to shoot that way….but I have never seen a guy get rid of that added noise completely.

 

[tracker12]

That seems like a very long point on. There are several ways to reduce that. Changing your anchor can help. I moved my anchor to my middle finger vs index to bring it down. Also use a full length arrow. heavier arrow can help as well as lowering the arrow on the riser.

 

[Novashooter]

Yep, Stringwalking is louder for sure. You are putting more pressure on one limb by crawling down the string.
Heck split finger is quieter that 3 under.

A guy can tune to shoot that way….but I have never seen a guy get rid of that added noise completely.

I almost hate that I found this to be true. I was happily shooting my fixed crawl with a little twang and good accuracy, right up until I tried split fingers. It is quite astounding how much quieter split fingers is, and I'm not sure why I didn't notice until now.