Minimalist Footwear: Is ankle support necessary?

[dgfavor]

The thing that I dislike about Topos and Altras is the stack height. In my opinion, the two things that make people want more ankle support is stack height and weak ankles. The former leads to instability and promotes ankle rolling. Wearing heavy ankle support just makes your ankles weaker. I wore wildland fire boots and stiff mountain boots daily for 25ish years and it left my feet and ankles a mess. I’m two years out of that and I can’t remember the last time I rolled an ankle. The Tracker ESCs that I largely wear now are ankle high. But I don’t lace them tightly so it’s not for support. It’s just to reduce the amount of debris that gets into them.

I personally have not had any problems with the stack heights - my Topos especially seems so wide I'm not sure I could tip 'em over! When I first got my previous Trailventures I felt like they were pretty "marshmellowy" and like the stack might be too much re. groundfeel, but I ended up really, really liking them - the grip was nuts. My current Trailventures have a bit less stack, definitely much firmer, and don't seem to grab onto the ground as well. Noticed yesterday they are starting to breakdown (well into 2nd year) on the uppers where my toes flex...like has happened quickly on all my Altras.

 

[dtrkyman]

I've read the ESC soles were more durable. How did the non-ESC sole hold up in the woods?

They are holding up really well, I have some separation along the toes but nothing major, they are taking abuse better than expected! I have worn them on asphalt trails a fair amount as well, I really like the boot and will likely get another pair, maybe with ESC soles?

The grip is better than expected as well.

 

[ElPollo]

I personally have not had any problems with the stack heights - my Topos especially seems so wide I'm not sure I could tip 'em over! When I first got my previous Trailventures I felt like they were pretty "marshmellowy" and like the stack might be too much re. groundfeel, but I ended up really, really liking them - the grip was nuts. My current Trailventures have a bit less stack, definitely much firmer, and don't seem to grab onto the ground as well. Noticed yesterday they are starting to breakdown (well into 2nd year) on the uppers where my toes flex...like has happened quickly on all my Altras.

I think the reason the stack height was an issue for me is that I cannot lace shoes tightly anymore. Had a nerve injury. If I lace them tightly, my foot goes numb. When I ran the Topos loose like that, the instability came from my foot sliding back and forth from edge to edge. It’s likely a me thing.

 

[dtrkyman]

I tried Hoka running shoes on a mule deer hunt a while back, worst thing I ever wore for side hilling, soft outsoles and high stack height equal a big no!

 

[okcaveman]

I've been wearing barefoot shoes more and more over the years. I used to have terrible ankle issues. These days, no issues, and I can never remember straining an ankle while wearing barefoot shoes. Unless im working, and have to wear a durable leather boot, or im on a long backpack hunt, im probably wearing barefoot. Need to try them on a more extensive hunt after reading this thread

 

[nphunter]

Thanks for confirming what my plan already was, I have quite a few pairs of lowtop altras and Topos- so I think I’ll be ditching the boots at home until it gets cold or wet. I have never had an issue with low tops, but I haven’t made a habit of sidehilling with them and a heavy pack either.

Would love to hear additional info that anyone may have.

I’ve been running Altra Lone peaks for the last few years. I have regulars, hikers and hiker gtx. I mostly hunt in the hikers because they slide around less and keep cheat grass and other debris out of my shoe. I’m often walking in dirt, ash or brush and it’s nice to have the couple extra inches there.

I’ve packed out 5 bulls and a few deer in them. With a heavy load side hilling I feel like I could damn near slide right out of my low tops. I don’t see me switching anytime soon from the lone peaks, I’ve put them through hell and they do great. I typically replace them annually but keep the old ones for days when I’m drying out, scouting or whatever.

 

[Ferrulewax]

I’ve been running Altra Lone peaks for the last few years. I have regulars, hikers and hiker gtx. I mostly hunt in the hikers because they slide around less and keep cheat grass and other debris out of my shoe. I’m often walking in dirt, ash or brush and it’s nice to have the couple extra inches there.

I’ve packed out 5 bulls and a few deer in them. With a heavy load side hilling I feel like I could damn near slide right out of my low tops. I don’t see me switching anytime soon from the lone peaks, I’ve put them through hell and they do great. I typically replace them annually but keep the old ones for days when I’m drying out, scouting or whatever.

Which Lone peak hikers do you have? They seem to get mixed reviews

 

[nphunter]

Which Lone peak hikers do you have? They seem to get mixed reviews

Lone Peak Hiker 2 & 3 and All weather hiker 2. Lone peak 9, 8 and 7’s for low top. I prefer the 3’s because they have less exposed foam on the bottom which causes the rubber to tear off as they wear out.

 

[Bowfinn]

I used Vivo Tracker Esc loosely tied on a 10 day sheep hunt this fall for my first extend trip, and didn’t come close to rolling my ankle. At this point I think I’m done wearing traditional boots. Ironically I came as close to rolling my ankle as I did on last years sheep hunt when I was wearing Lowa renegades, but this time I was wearing Altras in a paved parking lot. My takeaway stack height and the ability to use you foot/ankle flexibility contributes significantly to reducing risk of rolling an ankle.

 

[goathunter]

I tried Hoka running shoes on a mule deer hunt a while back, worst thing I ever wore for side hilling, soft outsoles and high stack height equal a big no!

Same. Hunted a day in lone peak altra high tops to be stealthy. Seemed like a good idea, until you leave the trail. Brutal. That's when I realized I side hill most of the day while hunting, and deadfall was a killer. Can't imagine a pack out. Never again.

 

[DesertPinstripes]

I wear mid boots more for durability/anti-pokey than for ankle support. If you want to wear trail running shoes and need ankle support, go can buy an ankle brace. Or hire a trainer to tape em like the pro sports players do if you really want to burn money!

 

[Outwest]

My opinion on this issue was changed by one of Steve Speck's videos on footwear. His theory was that a stiff boot actually transfers more torque from your feet/ankles to the rest of your legs and can cause bigger issues. This has been my experience after a summer of giving my stiff mountain boots a break and using exclusively trail runners. My feet may get tired but not necessarily sore and will recover quickly after a hard day.

The issue of carrying weight has been covered here but I think footwear fit is more important than type. It's in the nature of stiff, mountaineering style boots to lock your foot into place and this is where the stability comes from. If you can get low top trail runners to lock your foot in the same manner, I think you will often see the same level of stability.

My wife and I have joked this year that we have been lied to by "big boot" for our whole lives and can get by comfortably with trail runners or the like for 90% of the warm weather hunts we do. I still think there is a place for stiff, mountaineering style boot but they are not always the default best tool for carrying a pack through the mountains IMO.

My only other consideration is if you hunt in any type of cactus country, thick leather is still king.

 

[roosiebull]

I know there are quite a few guys here rocking the VIVO barefoot high tops as well as guys wearing lighter weight boots and trail runner style footwear. I am eyeing the atra lone peak hikers, but I don’t know if I really need the high ankle. For 99% of my hiking (sub 30lb pack) I wear trail runners, but I still can’t seem to find a hunting boot that fits me well despite being comfortable in pretty much any pair of trail shoes.

I am considering just going to a trail shoe for all my hunting, but I am concerned with pack outs when using an unstructured low top shoe. Do you guys find that the relatively unsupportive higher uppers on lightweight hikers like the Vivo or lone peak hikers help to mitigate ankle issues? Or can I just use a lowtop trail shoe? I am not concerned with water ingress on a lowtop for this use.

Unless it’s really wet steady rain, standing water, lots of mud) my favorite hunting “boot” is the zamberlan salathe which is a low top shoe, I have carried a lot of heavy loads through tough terrain in them and is the most sure footed hunting footwear I’ve used, over the years I have also done a lot of pack outs in xtratuff boots, which offer zero support and are a little taller soled, and have never had any issues in them besides a broken branch going through the sole once with a heavy load of elk meat, I got really lucky with that because it stabbed through between my big toe and the next or that would have been a problem, but that had nothing to do with ankle support

I have always hunted in footwear with little to no ankle support, I hate boots that trap my ankle. The most substantial footwear I wear hunting is lapponia, but generally prefer having free movement.

I don’t know that it’s a good idea to go from a stiff boot that traps your ankle to low tops, but I really don’t know, I have always preferred no ankle support footwear, and have never had issues

I do work in rubber boots with no support running around on rocking boats for a living, and I would guess that keeps my ankles in good shape always, but I know that you don’t need ankle support carrying heavy loads, I just don’t know if people have to work into that

I have hunted in altras a bit, and packed at least a couple elk in them that I can think of, and what I don’t like about them is the huge toe box that allows my foot to move in the shoe too much in rough terrain, and that is why I don’t hunt in them anymore, I want a shoe/boot to fit my whole foot well so my foot doesn’t slide around in the shoe in steep terrain

 

[dgfavor]

My side gig, when I'm not working diligently to inflate my online persona, is a for real board certified, nearly 30 years in the trenches Emergency Doc. Just today I had an elk hunter come in fresh from the field barely past sunup - opening day on his coveted draw tag, a target bull on the hit list...stumbled/slipped/snipered in the wet sage broke his ankle bad...wearing what appeared to be some sort of Crispi Guide walking boot immobilizers. Food for thought. Carry on.