Minnesota shotgun zone changes??

[Gutshot007]

Grew up in ohio . Family still there . They use tradbows , compounds and crossbows . They do shoot some nice bucks, but i think alot of it is timing of hunting seasons . Shotgun slug season starts in early december . They have the whole month of november to shoot deer with "archery" equipment . Ohio is really a nice archery state . Slug guns and not during the rut. A little bit structured like iowa with a higher population .
I have lived in minnesota 30 years . Hunt archery with trad equipment . I have mixed feelings about crossbows . I think there will be lots more "bowhunters " in the woods before rifle season . Crossbows are easy to get proficient with compared to other archery equipment . On the other hand when gander mountain went out of bussiness i got a deal on one . I'll mess with it and shoot . Maybe sneek in some tight spots on the ground later in season when its cold . I like to kill deer , but there's nothing like getting it done with a trad bow , but probably wouldnt complain to much killing a stud with a crossbow . ( will keep a tight lip with my trad buddies . Lol)

 

[roosterdown]

already worst-in-region deer hunting MN has.

Spot-on.

Potential to be one of the best? Check.

Completely opposite season structure of the most successful states (IA, WI)? Check.

We get what we deserve, I guess.

 

[fulldraw1972]

Letting crossbows have full inclusion into the archery season can be terrible for the public land hunter. When it comes to the private land hunter not so much.

Mn has a couple of problems when it comes to quality of bucks. They manage for opportunity and herd management as a whole rather than quality.

Comparing Mn to Iowa.
Mn deer gun season is in the heart of the rut. Iowa gun season is in December.

Mn has almost twice the pressure compared to Iowa.
According to license sales and total acreage Mn has 8.3 hunters per square mile compared to 4.5 in Iowa.

One last problem is Mn has wolves and Iowa does not.

With that said. I seen a fair amount of big bucks (One buck was well over 160”) on their feet during daylight last year after gun season closed up till thanksgiving weekend. This was in SW Mn.

 

[wind gypsy]

Spot-on.

Potential to be one of the best? Check.

Completely opposite season structure of the most successful states (IA, WI)? Check.

We get what we deserve, I guess.

I wouldn't argue that WI is that much better. Having gun season later is a difference maker but they also allow for hunters to shoot an archery buck and a firearm buck. I think a larger % of the state being high quality habitat than MN helps a lot.

 

[bowkill]

The part that I don't understand or agree with is that the reg book specifically states that for it to be a legal bow, it can't be held at draw by any mechanical means. Now we're just going to pretend that rule was never actually important and just go ahead and consider a "crossgun" a piece of archery equipment and allow them to be legal for the entire archery season. Why couldn't they just legalize them for the gun season. If you want to shoot one, there you go.

 

[marjje]

Why couldn't they just legalize them for the gun season. If you want to shoot one, there you go.

Crossbows were already legal to use during firearms season.

 

[bowkill]

Crossbows were already legal to use during firearms season.

So why did they need to expand the season, then?

 

[marjje]

So why did they need to expand the season, then?

My guess would be to attract more hunters. The DNR has hosted public "deer plan" meetings for the last ~5 years and I would assume that they are receiving more support of crossbow use than opposition.

 

[WCB]

As stated before they did not pass the elimination of slug zones. The push for it is because according to the DNR one of their biggest items they ticket people on is using a rifle in a slug area in areas bordering these zones. Like other states there has been talk about allowing straight wall cartridges in slug areas but the DNR wants to skip pass that and go right to rifle across the state.

IMO, hunting a lot of public land in slug areas...allowing rifles will make me second guess going on those lands. I've had enough slugs scream by me from guys fairly close 200-300 yards away. Shit will get real when they guy on the other end of the public starts trying to reach out and touch deer. I see zero reason to do it. And the DNRs excuse for it is insane. Too many people ignoring regulations so lets make it legal.

As far as hunting during the rut. eh. You'll have to back it up realistically 3+ weeks to get aways from the "rut" I see far more bucks moving mid to late Nov. than I do first week or so in Nov....Also realistically during gun season the average weekend warrior deer hunter that make up the vast majority of hunters in the woods hunts 3hrs Sat morning....3 hours sat night....3 hrs sunday morning and is pulling out of deer camp at noon the 2nd day not to return for another year. Most those bucks are getting killed due to pressure not because of the rut.

 

[wind gypsy]

My guess would be to attract more hunters. The DNR has hosted public "deer plan" meetings for the last ~5 years and I would assume that they are receiving more support of crossbow use than opposition.

Had nothing to do with the DNR, it was politics. The primary deer hunting organization with any influence in the state flipped their stance to supporting xbows for all in archery season so there is basically zero organized opposition to crossbow lobby. Take a look at the social media accounts of Rep Samantha Vang from Brooklyn Center who introduced a crossbow bill and tell me if it seems more likely she's looking out for hunter's interests or if Crossbow lobbyists had some pull.

 

[marjje]

Had nothing to do with the DNR, it was politics. The primary deer hunting organization with any influence in the state flipped their stance to supporting xbows for all in archery season so there is basically zero organized opposition to crossbow lobby. Take a look at the social media accounts of Rep Samantha Vang from Brooklyn Center who introduced a crossbow bill and tell me if it seems more likely she's looking out for hunter's interests or if Crossbow lobbyists had some pull.

I don't have any social media accounts so I'll have to take your word for it. If what you say is true, that is unfortunate. Politics should have no place in biology but unfortunately often does.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don't have any social media accounts so I'll have to take your word for it. If what you say is true, that is unfortunate. Politics should have no place in biology but unfortunately often does.

You don't need social media to visit her stuff:

Representative Samantha Vang

Representative Samantha Vang. 875 likes · 18 talking about this. State Representative Samantha Vang got elected in 2018 becoming the first two Hmong American woman to be elected in the State House....

www.facebook.com

Edit: didn't see she was House Ag vice chair, that makes a little sense

RE Biology- The only biology that plays into MN DNR Deer management decisions is total number of deer. A herd with 95% of the bucks being less than 2 YO and highly lopsided buck:doe ratio is considered biologically sound as long as enough does are getting bred and fawn survival is high.

 

[marjje]

You don't need social media to visit her stuff:

Representative Samantha Vang

Representative Samantha Vang. 875 likes · 18 talking about this. State Representative Samantha Vang got elected in 2018 becoming the first two Hmong American woman to be elected in the State House....

www.facebook.com

Edit: didn't see she was House Ag vice chair, that makes a little sense

RE Biology- The only biology that plays into MN DNR Deer management decisions is total number of deer. A herd with 95% of the bucks being less than 2 YO and highly lopsided buck:doe ratio is considered biologically sound as long as enough does are getting bred and fawn survival is high.

Thanks for that link, I'll check it out.

Where did you find that "95%" stat? Everything I see is just broken down by adult vs juvenile.

 

[BRoth82]

I'm glad they changed the archery rule to allow anyone to use a crossbow using archery season. The reason being my wife likes to bow hunt but due to different issues she can't quite draw the poundage required to bow hunt. Buy she hasn't been able to have a Dr. fillout the necessary paper work to get a crossbow permit. Now she'll be able to enjoy hu ting in the warmer weather and bow hunt again.

 

[wind gypsy]

Thanks for that link, I'll check it out.

Where did you find that "95%" stat? Everything I see is just broken down by adult vs juvenile.

It's not a real #, just an imaginary scenario. The point is that they refuse to collect data on buck:doe ratios and age class much less manage for it. 1.5 YO bucks are classified as adults.

So when someone says "but the DNR says it wont impact deer "biologically"" what they are really saying is that we wont kill every last buck, some will still be able to breed the does, and winter/predation is mild enough so fawns survive such that overall population wont be impacted. It typically means very little about how anything impacts the buck population or quality of hunting.

 

[fulldraw1972]

As far as hunting during the rut. eh. You'll have to back it up realistically 3+ weeks to get aways from the "rut" I see far more bucks moving mid to late Nov. than I do first week or so in Nov....Also realistically during gun season the average weekend warrior deer hunter that make up the vast majority of hunters in the woods hunts 3hrs Sat morning....3 hours sat night....3 hrs sunday morning and is pulling out of deer camp at noon the 2nd day not to return for another year. Most those bucks are getting killed due to pressure not because of the rut.

I am all good with pushing gun season till the first weekend of December. That is when states like iowa and Kansas have it.
Then you have states like Illinois, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Ohio and SD that have a gun season that comes in either the the middle of the November or a week later.
Young buck movement is at its peak in the first week of November. They are young and dumb and don’t know any better.
Throw in the last handful of years we have had above average temperatures during the beginning of November. That will affect big buck movement.
When the orange army hits the woods in the beginning of November all that pressure will have an effect on deer movement. It’s been a lot of years since I hunted deer during gun season in Mn but one of the things I picked up on quick was the amount of shots you heard dropped off steadily after opening morning. Some of could be because of what you said. However the amount of deer I seen dropped off as well.

 

[WCB]

I am all good with pushing gun season till the first weekend of December. That is when states like iowa and Kansas have it.
Then you have states like Illinois, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Ohio and SD that have a gun season that comes in either the the middle of the November or a week later.
Young buck movement is at its peak in the first week of November. They are young and dumb and don’t know any better.
Throw in the last handful of years we have had above average temperatures during the beginning of November. That will affect big buck movement.
When the orange army hits the woods in the beginning of November all that pressure will have an effect on deer movement. It’s been a lot of years since I hunted deer during gun season in Mn but one of the things I picked up on quick was the amount of shots you heard dropped off steadily after opening morning. Some of could be because of what you said. However the amount of deer I seen dropped off as well.

Not sure what you are getting at....above average temps would suppress movement. I would bet my house that moving the season back a week like WI or almost anytime would not having any significant change to the harvest. The deer movement drop off after opening morning is due to increased pressure and obviously less deer because a shit ton get shot opening day. I've hunted (or accompanied my dad before I was able to hunt) every year in MN except for two in the last 31 years. Deer run scared the first weekend for the most part. 2nd weekend traditionally saw more natural rut activity due to less pressure (when the season was split in a bunch of the state).

I don't really have anything against changing the dates to early December but honestly unless we got some real winter weather and the deer moved to different cover types or food sources I don't think you would see a change in harvest rates and honestly bigger bucks in my experience are easier to kill in MN in December than they are early Nov.

 

[Shadowcaster]

I'm gonna be that guy and revive this thread...
When I first heard about MN passing the crossbow rule I was pretty pissed and shocked, primarily for my own selfish reasons. I wish the legislature would've consulted someone who knows more than them rather than just passing it though. The only thing that really concerns me is the effect that may have on the antlerless lottery zones, because I'm anticipating a potential surge in hunters who now have a 3 month season, and can now take either sex.

As far as the shotgun zone thing goes, I don't really care either way as I'm in northern MN. For logics sake I just wish they made it make sense. You can hunt with an AR pistol in 308 Win or 6.5 Creed, but you can't hunt with an 1873 Winchester in 44-40? I get that they made it that way for simplicity, but give me a break.

 

[spur60]

I'm gonna be that guy and revive this thread...
When I first heard about MN passing the crossbow rule I was pretty pissed and shocked, primarily for my own selfish reasons. I wish the legislature would've consulted someone who knows more than them rather than just passing it though. The only thing that really concerns me is the effect that may have on the antlerless lottery zones, because I'm anticipating a potential surge in hunters who now have a 3 month season, and can now take either sex.

As far as the shotgun zone thing goes, I don't really care either way as I'm in northern MN. For logics sake I just wish they made it make sense. You can hunt with an AR pistol in 308 Win or 6.5 Creed, but you can't hunt with an 1873 Winchester in 44-40? I get that they made it that way for simplicity, but give me a break.

Technology has far surpassed the original firearms rules. And to me it's pointless that 20 guys can surround a gravel pit right out of city limits with ARs to shoot coyotes, but the same guys have to use slugs for deer.

 

[wind gypsy]

Technology has far surpassed the original firearms rules. And to me it's pointless that 20 guys can surround a gravel pit right out of city limits with ARs to shoot coyotes, but the same guys have to use slugs for deer.

I've never seen public lands crawling with coyote hunters. Traffic and human presence in "rural" areas isn't multiple times higher for a weekend during "coyote opener".

I'm not a staunch advocate of maintaining slug only season but i can certainly see some positives.