New Year, Same Story

[OXN939]

Police: 18-year-old Amelia County woman killed in deer hunting incident

According to officials, one of the other hunters found Patman dead during the hunt. She appeared to have been shot.

www.wric.com

Not 100% confirmed yet, but this looks a lot like the profile of another dog hunting accident. Basically, for anyone not familiar, guys let a pack of dogs loose, stand in a field, and kill the deer with shotguns and buckshot as the dogs run them out into the open. A few problems with this. One, dogs can't read property signs, so they end up running all over everyone's private property, killing pets, farm animals and generally causing enough issues to bring about quite a few lawsuits. Two, you have hunters making split second decisions to send buckshot at fast moving objects, often in reduced visibility environments... which frequently goes south. Three, the season is over for anyone interested in fair chase hunting once this starts, even if you do own private property.

All about tradition and everyone hunting how they want as long as it's legal... but what's legal is clearly not jiving with the real world here. Hunting accidents happen sometimes, but it's hard to remember a season of my adult life in VA where there hasn't been some kind of wild headline about this specific subset of hunting. Now more than ever, we have to realize that the ~90% of the population that doesn't hunt is mostly who votes on and decides the issues that will impact how our sport looks in ten years, and the way hunting is done now in VA is not going to cut it.

Thoughts and prayers to the family.

 

[archp625]

I am not a fan of this activity. I have found that the older I get, even its it's legal I have the option to say that's not right for me. Too many risk involved. I would be out if invited.

 

[Rich M]

Dog hunting aint all bad if they just follow the rules and not run everyone else's land.

It is the bad apples that really give it a bad name. And the folks who are so vocally against it - usually been burnt by a bad apple.

As for someone getting shot hunting - We know the risks when we hunt, it is still much safer than driving a car.

 

[dr.mooseknuckles]

I think dog hunting sucks. I'm sure not all dog hunters are bad, but in terms of meat quality, perception and actions of others, and general animal welfare.

A group routinely poached deer off of our place for the longest time. This wasn't an adjacent property issue either. They'd put their dogs off on the dirt road boarding the west side of our property and shoot deer off the road on the east side. True scum bags. They'd never talk with my saint of a grandfather to come to some terms. Game warden wouldn't/couldn't catch them. They didn't stop until some of their dogs stopped returning.

Saw deer get run so far and fast that they'd be frothing at the mouth. There's no way that the meat was worth a damn.

 

[KHNC]

Legal in lowcountry SC and some other parts of the state. I cant stand it either and wont hunt anywhere near where it happens regularly.

 

[wind gypsy]

As for someone getting shot hunting - We know the risks when we hunt, it is still much safer than driving a car.

I highly doubt doing deer drives of any kind is as safe as driving a car minute for minute spent doing either.

 

[Rich M]

I highly doubt doing deer drives of any kind is as safe as driving a car minute for minute spent doing either.

I grew up doing man deer drives. We never shot anyone. Not sure your background but many eastern states are pretty big on deer drives - actually a fun time.

Dog drives are quite a bit more adrenaline-packed. There is a reason those guys have seats or platforms on top of the dog boxes. Most of them seem to "live forever" too.

I live near Orlando and I-4, every day on the road is more dangerous than a day in the woods. Fer Sure!

Back to shootings, many seem to be centered around vehicles - improper gun handling... As for the original post, without more info I'd say that OP was right, probably a .30 buckshot pellet in the temple from 100 yds away. never felt a thing.

 

[wind gypsy]

I grew up doing man deer drives. We never shot anyone. Not sure your background but many eastern states are pretty big on deer drives - actually a fun time.

Dog drives are quite a bit more adrenaline-packed. There is a reason those guys have seats or platforms on top of the dog boxes. Most of them seem to "live forever" too.

I live near Orlando and I-4, every day on the road is more dangerous than a day in the woods. Fer Sure!

Back to shootings, many seem to be centered around vehicles - improper gun handling... As for the original post, without more info I'd say that OP was right, probably a .30 buckshot pellet in the temple from 100 yds away. never felt a thing.

When i was 12 my buddy and I were posting on a deer drive. A doe ran between us and a slug from my friend hit the dirt at my dad and I's feet. I have shot a number of deer on drives since. The older I get the more i shudder at the thought of the angles and shots that were taken in those early years. Yeah, they were fun at the time. Between the safety issue, the low percentage shots taken at running deer, and how they blew up natural deer movement and use of the landscape, i don't have a favorable view of them.

 

[wind gypsy]

The other linked article that said MN is the only other state to allow people to enter posted private property to retrieve dogs which is surprising. Hound hunters definitely abuse that here too.. I've come up on them preparing to run hounds through my property for coyotes. Typically it's at least after big and small game seasons have ended but that's some pretty disrespectful crap.

 

[Rich M]

When i was 12 my buddy and I were posting on a deer drive. A doe ran between us and a slug from my friend hit the dirt at my dad and I's feet. I have shot a number of deer on drives since. The older I get the more i shudder at the thought of the angles and shots that were taken in those early years. Yeah, they were fun at the time. Between the safety issue, the low percentage shots taken at running deer, and how they blew up natural deer movement and use of the landscape, i don't have a favorable view of them.

Fair enough.

We used to do slow drives, guys stalking/still hunting thru the woods. The deer were usually walking about 50 yards in front of the pushers, you'd see flickers of movement up front from time to time but that was all. The standers had easy shots.

I got my first deer doing a drive - 3 does were pushed over by guy to my right and just stood there in front of me. Was a 4th deer (probably a buck) but I happily shot the big doe.

 

[RocketRob16]

I’ll throw out my perspective since I’ve seen both sides of this. Where I live and hunt, hunting with deer dogs is still a tradition but slowly declines in popularity every year it seems like. It is deeply rooted in tradition and I grew up doing a pretty even mix of hunting in a tree stand and with deer dogs. Many people here now prefer to stand hunt because the shift is toward targeting big bucks only.

I have never heard of an issue with deer dogs here killing pets or farm animals. Much less about lawsuits. Some people do not look favorably upon the practice of running deer with dogs but I do not see many ethical issues with that group of hunters except a few bad apples here and there.

As far as hunting related accidents, I know of 0 incidents pertaining directly to dog hunters but several every year of people falling out of treestands and accidentally discharging firearms.

If what OP says is true, then dog hunters in VA are an entirely different culture group than we have. I very seldom hunt with deer dogs any more but the vast majority of them I know personally are great folks and aren’t causing any issues.

Any kind of hunting with dogs is an easy button to shift blame towards or look down upon. The anti-hunting community comes after trappers and hound hunters first because they’re the easiest sects to sway the opinion of in the mind of the general public. For this very reason, we should be defending these groups diligently. If they are able to abolish trapping/hound hunting, do you think they’ll be suddenly satisfied and stop there? No, next they’ll be coming after your preferred method of hunting. Sorry for the lengthy post but I’ve had this conversation many many times and it’s a deep, complicated issue.

Regardless of what method of hunting occurred, a young lady has died tragically and a family has lost a loved one. The sermon of gun safety at all times should be practiced until it is instinct and shouted from the rooftops by all.

 

[OXN939]

It is the bad apples that really give it a bad name.

I think the problem is that running dogs creates a situation where it's very easy for there to be bad apples. In my entire life in Virginia, I've never heard of a single person being killed while archery or muzzleloader hunting. Dozens of people have been seriously injured or killed running dogs. None of the other kinds of hunting encroach on others' private property or kill pets in peoples' yards. Running dogs just has a higher incidence of these black eye type events.

The heart of the issue I think is that you can't do stuff for your enjoyment that harms other people. Like, drinking six beers and driving home might be convenient or even fun, but not so good for the community at large. Can't put up a concert venue in a residential neighborhood that drops everyone's property values by 20%. So why do dudes get to run their dogs across my property, diminishing its hunting value and endangering its residents? My mom had a pet cat killed in front of her in the 80s by a pack of hunting dogs. Never really asked her much about it, but I bet most people would be pretty pissed if someone murdered a cat in front of their kid and made them watch.

The best solution I can come up with is a minimum acreage requirement for dog hunting, maybe 500. Large enough to prevent a lot of the conflicts but would still let the ones who have the ability to do it right hunt how they want.

 

[CT_MS]

I grew up dog hunting. It was lots of fun but we had enough land to keep the dogs on our lease for the most part. Now that we have smaller leases, the dog hunters are annoying. They have no respect for their anybody. Leases are generally smaller and they don’t care. They just turn their dogs out on the side of the road and push them through somebody else’s property.

 

[OXN939]

They have no respect for anybody. They just turn their dogs out on the side of the road and push them through somebody else’s property.

Just gets really old as an outdoorman when you spend an exhaustive amount of time and effort being a good representation of our sport, and then every year this happens at the same time. For some reason, this one specific subset of hunting seems to attract a lot of low quality humans...