Nonresident Exclusions

[Mighty Mouse]

You‘re basically talking about managing the land in western states the way land is managed here in Texas. Essentially no public land. I love my state. But, hunting here sucks and is very expensive. This is absolutely not the model we need for hunting in the western states.

Agree to disagree. The amount of federal land in Alaska alone is 1.3 times the size of the state of Texas. Federal land in the 11 states in and west of the Rockies amounts to 2.1 times the size of Texas. Privatizing 3.4 "Texases" worth of land would be a massive change, and I don't think anyone can say with any certainty how a change of that magnitude would ultimately affect hunting opportunities as a whole.

 

[BuzzH]

Agree to disagree. The amount of federal land in Alaska alone is 1.3 times the size of the state of Texas. Federal land in the 11 states in and west of the Rockies amounts to 2.1 times the size of Texas. Privatizing 3.4 "Texases" worth of land would be a massive change, and I don't think anyone can say with any certainty how a change of that magnitude would ultimately affect hunting opportunities as a whole.

Sure we can, Texas is the model of exactly what will happen. IF, you can find a place to lease, you'll pay wayyyy more than the cost of a NR hunting license to hunt it. Oklahoma another example, most eastern States and Midwest states, more examples. Paying for leases and/or guided hunts is what you do.

Plenty of examples of exactly what would happen...open your eyes and mind.

 

[mlgc20]

Agree to disagree. The amount of federal land in Alaska alone is 1.3 times the size of the state of Texas. Federal land in the 11 states in and west of the Rockies amounts to 2.1 times the size of Texas. Privatizing 3.4 "Texases" worth of land would be a massive change, and I don't think anyone can say with any certainty how a change of that magnitude would ultimately affect hunting opportunities as a whole.

I don’t think there is any scenario you could reasonably come up with where we privatize all federal and state owned lands, and not have the cost of hunting skyrocket and opportunity decline. Right now you can go hunt elk in Wyoming for $700. Thats an incredible deal. No chance the private sector beats that.

 

[wind gypsy]

Whoever owns the habitat has the best ownership claim to the wildlife that inhabits it and should be free to manage those animals as he sees fit. If a landowner wants wildlife on his property, it's up to him to figure out how to achieve that...either contain them or attract them. If a landowner wants to use every square inch to grow crops or raise livestock or develop housing and wants to keep wildlife out, it's up to him to keep them away. Practically speaking, containing wildlife would be physically difficult and prohibitively expensive for most individual landowners, although high fence ranches do exist in some places (not sure I consider animals within a high fence true "wildlife" even though they might be of the same species as free ranging animals). Individual landowners with adjoining properties could band together and agree to common wildlife management objectives, which would essentially be a micro version of what is currently done at the state level. Bad actors could be fenced off or bought out. The larger the natural range of an individual animal/species, the trickier the issue becomes (e.g., migratory ducks), and it may be that the best management strategy is to delegate authority to the state or federal level. But for many terrestrial species, wildlife management is possible at a much smaller scale than statewide, probably down to individual landowners in many cases.

Ever heard of the Red Desert to Hoback migration or GYE elk migrations?

Elk Migrations of the Greater Yellowstone | Wyoming Migration Initiative

migrationinitiative.org

.

Red Desert to Hoback Migration Assessment | Wyoming Migration Initiative

migrationinitiative.org

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Which is why people from there flood the west every year to hunt, that and you tube.

That and the fact that the west is home to several highly prized big game species that aren't found in the east.

If no one owes you hunting opportunities why are you so bent about the WY wilderness law.

Just trying to have a friendly discussion, which is a lot to ask out of an Internet forum. Also, the context of what you quoted was my statement that I would support land privatization even if it meant personally losing hunting opportunities. I stand by that statement, but we're a long, long way from privatization being a live option (as evidenced by all the "OMG, we can't do that!" knee jerk reactions elicited by my post), and I'll still advocate for marginal improvements to make the current system more equitable.

 

[Maverick1]

What is the point of this thread?

 

[BuzzH]

I don’t think there is any scenario you could reasonably come up with where we privatize all federal and state owned lands, and not have the cost of hunting skyrocket and opportunity decline. Right now you can go hunt elk in Wyoming for $700. Thats an incredible deal. No chance the private sector beats that.

Actually, you can hunt elk for less than that, if you aren't concerned about antlers, right around $300...but good point all the same. My NR nephew will be hunting a wilderness area this year for a bull elk in Wyoming for $275, no guide, no outfitter. He's killed 2 cow elk already as a NR here, and a pronghorn, for a total of $330ish dollars (around $100 per tag).

 

[Mighty Mouse]

What is the point of this thread?

For some here I believe the point is to see how many times they can say "but it's the law" to anyone who questions said law.

 

[BuzzH]

What is the point of this thread?

Usual whine-fest about NR's being abused in Wyoming because they're too dumb to figure how to hunt a wilderness area without paying an outfitter.

Always happens about this time of year (draw results next week).

 

[BigBird69]

Usual whine-fest about NR's being abused in Wyoming because they're too dumb to figure how to hunt a wilderness area without paying an outfitter.

Always happens about this time of year (draw results next week).

How does not knowing anyone from Wyoming to accompany them on a hunt equate to being dumb?

 

[slick]

I’m out. MM alluded to the privatization of wildlife, which is the exact opposite reason wildlife populations are robust and we have the good fortune to pursue the variety of species across the west that we do.






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[2rocky]

How does not knowing anyone from Wyoming to accompany them on a hunt equate to being dumb?

Heck you just ask the girl at the coffee shop if she wants to go elk huntin'...works for me every time...

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Sure we can, Texas is the model of exactly what will happen. IF, you can find a place to lease, you'll pay wayyyy more than the cost of a NR hunting license to hunt it. Oklahoma another example, most eastern States and Midwest states, more examples. Paying for leases and/or guided hunts is what you do.

Plenty of examples of exactly what would happen...open your eyes and mind.

I don’t think there is any scenario you could reasonably come up with where we privatize all federal and state owned lands, and not have the cost of hunting skyrocket and opportunity decline. Right now you can go hunt elk in Wyoming for $700. Thats an incredible deal. No chance the private sector beats that.

TX's population density is 1.7 times higher than the combined population density of the 11 Rockies-and-west states. If multi-million person metropolises are excluded from both states/regions, the population density difference grows slightly to 1.8x. Those stats don't definitively prove anything, but the fact that the region containing most lower 48 federal land is significantly less densely populated than TX bears consideration if you're making the claim that the whole region would "turn into TX" (with respect to hunting) and have exorbitantly high hunting costs if federal land were privatized.

 

[elkyinzer]

Bullshit, indefensible, outfitter welfare. I don't know how anyone can logically support it. If you are a WY res just call and spade a spade...it's fine to hate outsiders on your turf if that's how you really feel. I don't support any of the large national conservation orgs because I don't see them fighting against stupidity such as this or outfitter tag allocations.

 

[2rocky]

Guess what, Life isn't fair. The sooner you accept that and work on overcoming it the sooner you find a solution.

You don't hear folks from Wyoming whining about not getting a chance to hunt Texas do ya?

My great uncle went to Wyoming not knowing a soul in the 60's or 70's. He met a rancher in the bar who told him he would be happy to show him where to hunt, but had to build a bridge that week. My Great uncle helped him build the bridge and hunted there for 30 years.

Nothing to do with hunting wilderness but it goes to show you that simple social skills can open up opportunities no matter where the hunting ground is.

 

[2rocky]

 

[sndmn11]

Somebody here mentioned the native from MT who crossed I to WY to shoot some elk. That action seems to have been viewed negatively.

For those arguing against states' rights in managing the wildlife in their borders, how would you reconcile the above? If a hunter scouted an animal or a herd on the CO-WY border, and had a valid tag for either state, can the hunter cross state lines in your new rules? Where would you start and stop what is and isn't allowed?

 

[Whiskey_Fish]

When this argument went pro land transfer it really jumped the shark.


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[Fatcamp]

Yep the Wilderness rule sucks. I feel sorry for people who are unable to make friends with people who live in Wyoming. Guess that comes from the whole "I'd Rather hunt alone" mindset I get 'round here.

There is a way around it for the NR that wants to hunt WY wilderness. It just requires some work.

Somebody needs to start a hunting singles website. Nothing romantic, just a way to connect.

"I'm a mid-40's professional. Likes are anything Creedmoor and SWFA. Dislikes Leupold and Redhead. Enjoy early morning walks and fresh meat but really open to about anything. Tell me about yourself."

 

[Rokbar]

Would you mind detailing how? Just curious.

Actually, you can hunt elk for less than that, if you aren't concerned about antlers, right around $300...but good point all the same. My NR nephew will be hunting a wilderness area this year for a bull elk in Wyoming for $275, no guide, no outfitter. He's killed 2 cow elk already as a NR here, and a pronghorn, for a total of $330ish dollars (around $100 per tag).

Hey, would you mind to explain how this can be done? I'd be intersted to know, wilderness or no wilderness! Thanks