Odometer Fraud

[Justinjs]

Why do people love Carfax so much? It's only as good as the person reporting anything, it's not official. I'm not saying it's worthless, seems like everyone lives and dies by a service record that is put in by whoever though.

Ya, call the cops.

 

[Michael Rankin]

It’s not something g to live and die by, but if you can see the mileage progress over the years and registration is renewed and vehicle is serviced it can paint a clear picture.

If there is mileage entries over the life of the vehicle goi g up over time, and then the vehicle all of a sudden has 100k less miles that is an obvious sign of an issue.
Every state is different, but my guess is the OP will be told by the police this isn’t a police issue. It will probably be a civil matter resolved by state attorney general or civil court. If it is not the owner on the title it’s likely nothing will ever be resolved.

People that do these types of things also aren’t the one on the title. They buy it from the owner on the title. Then clear check engine lights, his problems, etc, then resell. They will leave no paper trail back to themselves.

Not saying that happened here, but that is typical of how these scammers operate.

You can eliminate a ton of risk confirming you are purchasing the vehicle from the person on the title is who you are buying from.

If the person selling is not the person on the title, buyer beware.

 

[Sturgeon]

It’s not something g to live and die by, but if you can see the mileage progress over the years and registration is renewed and vehicle is serviced it can paint a clear picture.

If there is mileage entries over the life of the vehicle goi g up over time, and then the vehicle all of a sudden has 100k less miles that is an obvious sign of an issue.
Every state is different, but my guess is the OP will be told by the police this isn’t a police issue. It will probably be a civil matter resolved by state attorney general or civil court. If it is not the owner on the title it’s likely nothing will ever be resolved.

People that do these types of things also aren’t the one on the title. They buy it from the owner on the title. Then clear check engine lights, his problems, etc, then resell. They will leave no paper trail back to themselves.

Not saying that happened here, but that is typical of how these scammers operate.

You can eliminate a ton of risk confirming you are purchasing the vehicle from the person on the title is who you are buying from.

If the person selling is not the person on the title, buyer beware.

Pretty sure that is what happened, said he was selling for his daughter blah blah blah.

 

[Justinjs]

To your point, my truck was serviced at dealership until the warranty ran out, two entries for oil changes, just two.
No tire change, brakes, ect. Shown.

A Carfax isn't going to show you who the owner is, nor is it going to do anything with a check engine light.
This is my point, You still have to verify everything with the seller anyway.
Most new cars show odometer reading and ecu mileage separate as well how many miles since the MIL has been cleared once hooked up to a $50 obd dongle.

 

[Maki35]

I would report it. You can try to contact the seller and request a refund or go straight to the authorities.

Does your wife still have the seller's ad stating the vehicle only had a 106k mi? What did the the seller write on the title as the mileage when he/she sold it to you?

These vehicles are due for a timing belt/ water pump/ belt changes every 90K mi. With your vehicle having over 180K mi, it should of have been changed twice already.
Does the service records show these items being replaced. That would give you an idea/confirm the range of mileage on the vehicle. The service center usually record the mileage upon servicing the vehicle.
(Or maybe the seller neglected to have the 2nd service/ timing belt changed? it's a few hundred +$800)

If you intend to keep the vehicle, make sure the timing belt was changed or get it changed because a fail/broken timing belt can seize the engine.

 

[Fatcamp]

Why do people love Carfax so much? It's only as good as the person reporting anything, it's not official. I'm not saying it's worthless, seems like everyone lives and dies by a service record that is put in by whoever though.

Ya, call the cops.

LOL. Well, in this case Carfax would have proved a valuable asset.

 

[Silveroddo]

Carfax is just a way to verify obvious issues, it’s far from perfect, but if it trips lemon buy backs, insurance claims and odometer readings it’s a place to start. If I’m not mistaken it will even show current lien records. Again not perfect but it can save you a trip if you catch a seller lying.

 

[dtrkyman]

A local shop recently wrote the wrong mileage down on my vehicle, typo , miss read I have no idea but it is only one document.

 

[rob86jeep]

As someone else already asked, what's your optimal outcome?

Also, what was marked on the title for the milage (the seller should have had to write in the milage or check the box saying the milage is unknown/inaccurate.

 

[Opah]

If you didn't check the service record what does it matter ?
A vehicle with 50,000 miles without service is a piece of crap that doesn't smell yet.

 

[GotDraw?]

Thanks for the responses guys. I do not have a bill of sale for the vehicle nor did I run a CarFax. I did do a VIncheck on NICB and the vehicle was not in an accident and the title was clean. I don't trust anything the guy said now about service that was performed on it and am nervous that I'm going to have a lot more issues with repairs since it has at least 90,000 more miles on it.

I think what you mean to say is the car has almost DOUBLE the mileage it was advertised to have.
That would piss me off. Do an internet search and find out what the monetary limits are for small claims court in your state. $10k in Maryland I believe.

Then try to verify if that receipt is accurate and the vehicle's mileage is almost double the advertised mileage.

If it is accurate, then do not waste any more than 1X time talking with this fraud perpetrating ass. Call him one time, tell him you want all of your money back or you will sue him for fraud in small claims court. Fraud is a no bull-shit matter, and if he holds any sort of professional license you can call that association, etc and inform them of their member's fraudulent actions (if he loses a lawsuit/claim you file).

If small claims court in your state has a reasonable level (like $10k), then I'd hit him with that immediately. Even if the level is lower, you MAY be able to sue him for the negative impact on the value and service live of the vehicle. That may be a couple $2k right there, and since it's fraud, you may be able to leverage that to triple damages and get $6k out of it.

The reality is that NO ONE wants a fraud conviction, it has too many implications for ALL employment, banking, lending, licensing relationships. I'd make this clear to the seller, seller should want to make this right immediately in order to avoid you even filing a claim in the court, much less if you file and he loses and has a judgement.

JL

JL

 

[Sturgeon]

As someone else already asked, what's your optimal outcome?

Also, what was marked on the title for the milage (the seller should have had to write in the milage or check the box saying the milage is unknown/inaccurate.

Optimal outcome would be getting my money back and then some for the hassle. With 100k vehicle and our family putting on maybe 5k a year I figured this would have no problem serving us 5-6 years if we took care of some maintenance. With over 200k I'm nervous about getting too far away from home with it.

The seller did not record mileage, I wrote in the mileage that the odometer displayed, which looking at it now was an error on my part. The box was not checked for a discrepancy.

 

[Dust Rider]

FWIW: If a mechanic or repair shop installed a new odometer at some point in the cars life they usually mark the old or new mileage in silver permanent marker on inside of drivers side door near the latch. Some mechs would mark under hood in engine compartment near back where steering column goes through to cab.

 

[Sturgeon]

I think what you mean to say is the car has almost DOUBLE the mileage it was advertised to have.
That would piss me off. Do an internet search and find out what the monetary limits are for small claims court in your state. $10k in Maryland I believe.

Then try to verify if that receipt is accurate and the vehicle's mileage is almost double the advertised mileage.

If it is accurate, then do not waste any more than 1X time talking with this fraud perpetrating ass. Call him one time, tell him you want all of your money back or you will sue him for fraud in small claims court. Fraud is a no bull-shit matter, and if he holds any sort of professional license you can call that association, etc and inform them of their member's fraudulent actions (if he loses a lawsuit/claim you file).

If small claims court in your state has a reasonable level (like $10k), then I'd hit him with that immediately. Even if the level is lower, you MAY be able to sue him for the negative impact on the value and service live of the vehicle. That may be a couple $2k right there, and since it's fraud, you may be able to leverage that to triple damages and get $6k out of it.

The reality is that NO ONE wants a fraud conviction, it has too many implications for ALL employment, banking, lending, licensing relationships. I'd make this clear to the seller, seller should want to make this right immediately in order to avoid you even filing a claim in the court, much less if you file and he loses and has a judgement.

JL

JL

$10k is the limit for WI. Yes, it sucks knowing this vehicle probably has double the miles I thought it had.

This guy said he was Journeyman Electrician, but who knows what to believe about what actually came out his mouth. He said he was selling on behalf of his daughter who had already signed the title. We met in a public place and all contact was through FB messenger. The ad is no longer up, but our conversation is still there and I have taken screen shots of everything. My fear is that as soon as I reach out the profile will be gone and there will be no way to track him down.

 

[Marble]

So my wife and I recently purchased a 2010 Nissan Pathfinder through a private party on Facebook Marketplace. Despite being a somewhat older vehicle, we thought it would be good for us to use as a third vehicle when we take weekend trips with the kids since it is bigger than our other two vehicles. We drove out of town to look at the vehicle and met in a public place. It seemed to ride and drive strong and for the advertised mileage of 106,000 seemed to be a good price. We bought it and drove it home a few weeks ago. I went to change the cabin air filter and found a service sheet that stated in January the vehicle had around a 190,000 miles. We were definitely mislead, but haven't had any issues with the vehicle yet. I'm kind of at a loss on how to proceed. Just take the hit? Reach out to the seller? Get authorities involved?

I've had good luck in the past with used vehicles, but got a sour taste right now. Thanks in advance for any advice.

This type of crime is heavily investigated. Whatever state you are in, contact the State police or highway patrol. Sometimes the department of motor vehicles does the investigations.

Regardless, you are probably screwed. The people who do that generally create a fictitious account, provide burner numbers and fake names. To preserve anything, SCREENSHOT your entire conversation with them and the ad they placed.

I've dealt with similar stuff for years and you are really unprotected by anything.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Sadly on most vehicles it’s as easy a buying a used gauge cluster from a junk yard with lower miles and swapping them.

I did just this recently when I bought an old Jeep Cherokee off of Craigslist. It only had the "idiot warning lights" instead of real gauges and I wanted actual temp and oil pressure gauges so I bought a used gauge cluster on Ebay for $60.00 that also had less miles on it than the old odometer. It took me about 20 minutes to swap them. Yes, very easy to do on some vehicles.

 

[ghostmoney]

This type of crime is heavily investigated. Whatever state you are in, contact the State police or highway patrol. Sometimes the department of motor vehicles does the investigations.
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

This type of crime is heavily investigated. Whatever state you are in, contact the State police or highway patrol. Sometimes the department of motor vehicles does the investigations.

Regardless, you are probably screwed. The people who do that generally create a fictitious account, provide burner numbers and fake names. To preserve anything, SCREENSHOT your entire conversation with them and the ad they placed.

I've dealt with similar stuff for years and you are really unprotected by anything.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

Not investigated in my experience, bought a 4runner that had double the mileage. The guy was selling a car every month with changed odometers, I contacted him and he always wanted to meet in the same location and pictures were always taken in the same location. Spoke with police and they were not interested at all. Even when I had him willing to meet me to see another 4runner they wouldn’t send an officer to verify the mileage. I fought for months with different agencies and never got anywhere.
Occasionally I will check and still see his ads for sale and other people warning about him.

 

[Marble]

Not investigated in my experience, bought a 4runner that had double the mileage. The guy was selling a car every month with changed odometers, I contacted him and he always wanted to meet in the same location and pictures were always taken in the same location. Spoke with police and they were not interested at all. Even when I had him willing to meet me to see another 4runner they wouldn’t send an officer to verify the mileage. I fought for months with different agencies and never got anywhere.
Occasionally I will check and still see his ads for sale and other people warning about him.

Regular city cops or deputies will rarely ever get involved in these. That's why I mention the state level agencies. The state is the one getting defrauded also so they have reason to go after them.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[Maki35]

I'm not familiar with vehicle inspections in your state. I assume your vehicles must pass an inspection every year. Facilities that performs the inspection will record the mileage each time and sends the info to DMV. If the odometer was turned back/inaccurate it will show up at DMV.
If the seller recently changed the odometer just before selling it to you. Then you might get a notice from DMV stating you submitted a title with 106k mi when the vehicle was last inspected with 200k mi. ??
Did you copy/ write down the previous owners info (name/ address) from the title?
Write down the seller's FB info before he deletes it. Contact the correct agency & report the fraud.

 

[def90]

It’s not something g to live and die by, but if you can see the mileage progress over the years and registration is renewed and vehicle is serviced it can paint a clear picture.

If there is mileage entries over the life of the vehicle goi g up over time, and then the vehicle all of a sudden has 100k less miles that is an obvious sign of an issue.
Every state is different, but my guess is the OP will be told by the police this isn’t a police issue. It will probably be a civil matter resolved by state attorney general or civil court. If it is not the owner on the title it’s likely nothing will ever be resolved.

People that do these types of things also aren’t the one on the title. They buy it from the owner on the title. Then clear check engine lights, his problems, etc, then resell. They will leave no paper trail back to themselves.

Not saying that happened here, but that is typical of how these scammers operate.

You can eliminate a ton of risk confirming you are purchasing the vehicle from the person on the title is who you are buying from.

If the person selling is not the person on the title, buyer beware.

Wisconsin DMV Official Government Site - Odometer tampering

wisconsindot.gov