Opinion time... Problem or...?

[kiddogy]

if they are breaking the laws it is up to the citizens of that community to demand law enforcement. if people rise up the problem will be addressed.
whining on the net won't get it done

 

[Jauwater]

I agree with @MeatBuck and understand the point of his post 100%. Certain ethic groups have no respect for for wildlife, our forests, waterways or any of the regulations in place to protect them for future generations. It's almost like a search and destroy mission sanctioned by DFG and nobody is supposed to say anything because they are " enriching their cultures" F that.
Although there is nothing illegal represented in those photos, I can only imagine what the campsite, trails, and area in general looked like after they left. Yes I'm going to judge every person in those pics based off my experience with the 99% I've encountered in real life. Tough shit.
There is a massive underlying politically backed issue here that has unfortunately spilled over into hunting and outdoors activities in general. It's sad to see prime hunting areas destroyed by a relatively small percentage of the hunting community.

This is not a thread that should be on Rokslide either imho....

I agree with this. What's wrong with calling it the way you see it through your experiences. I also agree that once I seen this thread posted I knew racism would come up some where. Got labeled racist a couple months ago for telling the guys at the supply house I use that they should double up on grape soda in the vending machine because it seems to go fast around here. I love grape soda, and try to pick one up whenever I'm there. And they know that. But some how they construed it differently. Barely get customer service now walking through the door. It's ridiculous, craziness.

Sent from my moto g(7) optimo maxx(XT1955DL) using Tapatalk

 

[kiddogy]

IMHO,there is really nothing wrong with being a racist anyhow . to each their own. some folks you like ,some you don't , makes no difference to me what the reasons are.
those who bring it up are generally the most racist of all.

most don't give it a lot of thought till it gets thrown in their face.


don't hate me for being white and I won't pity you for not being white.

 

[Dos Perros]

My entire family is from California, and liberal, and they’d be the first to tell you how effed up CA is.

 

[rob86jeep]

Some of the comments on here really surprise me (although they shouldn't because racism is still an issue unfortunately).

There is no problem disliking somebody and saying so. There IS a problem with lumping everybody from a certain race or ethnic group together and making comments that they are all like that. I would hope that some of you can re-read through your comments and hopefully make some changes with they way you think; it will be better for everyone in America if you can. I can't force anybody to change though, no matter how wrong their beliefs are so good luck in life and hopefully your children understand to think differently when they're grown as I really hope my kids don't even have to have this conversation with their own kids later in life.

 

[brsnow]

Just wanted to see the opinions of others on the subject.
Opinions based on fact and real life experience is what I'm really looking for here. Others should have their eyes and ears open to an issue they can only speculate on.
It seems like there are more guys not grasping on to what I'm saying here, I think those guys simply don't have the experience with these folks that I have. Haven't seen them "using our public lands responsibly". And don't know just how f'd up fish and game practices are here in California.
When you allot 35000 Otc tags for an area and they all sell out and game harvest numbers don't greatly increase, there's a sign that the state wants your money knowing there's not the available resources to harvest. (A reason that thirty guys only killed a couple bucks that weekend of the pics.)

When you see these guys driving the nf with guns drawn out the window on beef cows...

When you drive 30 or more miles through the nf and don't see a single deer, squirrel or quail...

When you pull up at o dark thirty to take your son on his first deer hunt and the area you've scouted prior to the hunt has 10-15 Toyota pickups and 4Runners parked there...

When an area is so overrun with these guys that an access by permit only process has to be put in place... I.e. Knoxville wa...

When you call fish and wildlife to report the issues you see and you don't get a call back...

When you've hunted California for most your life and had to find a new spot every other year or every other weekend because there's 20-30 guys in a group pushing out the canyon you wanted to glass or have scouted...

Or when you have a downed deer and there's a group of these guys on radios, firing .22s, and yelling amongst themselves and you get to your deer and there's someone standing over it that speaks no English and looks at you like "this is your deer?"...

Everyones entitled to their opinions and I asked for them but don't look at me like I'm the bad guy or that I'm not a successful hunter on account of these guys being out there using our public lands "responsibly".

When you've dealt with this type of activity first hand, only then will you be in the same place of frustration as I am.
I'm looking to open eyes to truths about wildlife management practices and hunter ethics in California, few here seem to think these things are an issue but that is the issue, not racism or cultural differences. Not that buck should have been mine. None of that stuff.
My opinion is based only on what I've seen or been told by guys I hunt with and not speculation. Aside from setting up scenarios to try to explain what I mean in lamens terms all the things I've said here are based on my experiences.
It's interesting to read the replys here, you can tell where the guys mind is on the subject and not even have to reply.

My ultimate goal in this discussion is to have something that I can take to fish and game, or whatever level of govt or whoever will listen, to try to help solve the impact the Hmong culture and gross mismanagement is having on California's wildlife.

Even now looking through the replys it seems that as long as it's legal it's ok... A deeper look is perhapse needed here. A look into fish and game management practices in California for starters.
Your right it's hard to see that any wrong is being done if all's legal. And to me that is more the issue here I guess.
If managed for wildlife instead of for dollars, California would be an outdoorsmans paradise, as it used to be before agriculture and hippies.

If you really had altruistic intentions you wouldn’t single out one ethnicity. What you described is a part of most states wildlife management and Hunter behavior. We are a capitalistic society with less available land each year.

 

[Drenalin]

Looks and sounds a lot like traditional deer camps, up to and including some amount of poaching and littering. Same camps guys get all misty eyed reminiscing about now. I’m sure not all those dudes were breaking the law, just like not all these dudes are. I can understand your frustration with the situation, but I don’t have any advice that hasn’t already been given. I doubt starting a conversation, or whatever the hell this is, on Rokslide will change anything though.

 

[KurtR]

if they are breaking the laws it is up to the citizens of that community to demand law enforcement. if people rise up the problem will be addressed.
whining on the net won't get it done

LE is writing tickets daily but when they don’t care and just drive back to Minneapolis it’s pissing in the wind. Same guy gets caught hours apart but it’s just a misdemeanor ticket. Need more teeth behind the laws . Hell even caught transporting over limits over state lines now a fed Lacey act violation but bail is made and lost in the wind. Any one who wants to witness first hand show up to devils lake this spring.

 

[TooLucky406]

Wow... pretty interesting read!...I would have jumped in here earlier, but the title seemed liked another hunter's first world problem so didn't bother to read it. Very glad I did. First off, let start by saying I am Hmong. Secondly, I am quite disturbed to see such a credible hunting forum as Rockslide have a post like this. And third, I'm going to chime in, before this thread gets locked up.
So a brief background of myself, as I am more of a lurker and don't personal know anyone here, but truely appreciate all the great information on this site. I am first generation "American" born, here in the the great state of Montana, where I have lived most of my life. Grauduated high school and attended University of Montana with a BA in Geography/Cartography/GIS. Married with three unbelievable kids( 7yr old boy and 2yr old twin girls). Also, pround members of RMEF, TU, B&C Club and Pope and Young and local hunting organizations.
For those not in the known, a brief history lesson of who, what, where the Hmong people are. Hmong are mostly from Southeast Asia(Laos, Thailand, Vietnam) and some in Southern China. Hmong are hunters and gatherers that live in mountainous regions, who live off the land. The first immigrants to the U.S came after the end of the Vietnam war, where the Hmong people fought side by side with U.S. troops. One of the first refugee locations was Missoula, Montana, where a U.S. Forest Service smoke jumper turn CIA officer(the great Jerry Daniels)befriended a Hmong General(Vang Pao). This is how my grandfathers and grandmothers, aunts and uncles, and parents got to Montana. Fast forward 30 years later Hmong people are located all throughout the U.S. predominantly in California and Minnesota. It is estimated that there are 260k Hmong living in the U.S.
Thus, come full circle back to the OP comment of

"Who thinks its good to see the Hmong people getting outdoors and using our public lands?"

Sorry guy, this comment deserves to a contender for 2019 dumbest question post in a hunting forum. Sir, public lands means, public to all, including Hmong or any person, willing to enjoy these lands. I'm not going to play the race card because that is too easy. Instead, try to understand the purpose of this post. I can not say that your experiences with Hmong folks are true or false, elaborated or not. Only you know. And, trust me when I say, I have and many here on Rockslide would like to admit, unfortunately have done our fair share of picking up trash after others. But thank you for cleaning up the mess. What I can say is and many of my Hmong people will agree, is that we appreciate the land we hunt, live, and walk on. We respect all animals and we kill only what we will eat. Those that know me know I'm a big stickler for following the rules and going about things the legal way! Sure there are bad apples and we understand this more then others, as one bad thing is usually a black eye on the entire culture. I promise you, if you walk up to a individual Hmong person or a group of them, they are likely to be more timid of you. Not because they're doing something wrong, its part of our culture. We are taught to go about our own business, until someone comes and ask for help and not usually gun in hand to chat. So your likely never see a Hmong person encroach you at a hunting site, fishing hole, grocery store, etc, just to small talk. Some may proceed it as being rude, but we see it as not intruding in other's business. I'm also not going to comment on everything said about bad encounters with Hmong folks, but I can promise you there are likely more good ones then bad ones. But if shit is be done illegally, call your game and fish warden. A statement like, I call and nothing happen or warden don't care because the folks are enriching them is a big cop out. If these so called Hmong people are routinely illegally doing this, it is not going to help no one. So game and fish has to step in. Otherwise, folks are just going off hearsay!
So to the OP, I do not have a good suggestion for you that hadn't been cover already, but if your true main concern is the number of allocated deer licenses in that unit you hunt is over objective, you need to up that with your fish and game commission and not blame a certain ethnic group for legally purchasing them.

My question for you is if Hmong people no longer hunt this unit ever again, would you still have the same disesteem for Hmong folk. This OP is the question you need to seek. Also, feel free to PM me, with another questions or concerns. We may not come with every solution, but will better understand one another.
Lastly, on this ever long post of mine, a real big Thank You to all those folks that has post about seeing the bigger picture, I really appreciate it!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING too all of you!

 

[kiddogy]

Some of the comments on here really surprise me (although they shouldn't because racism is still an issue unfortunately).

There is no problem disliking somebody and saying so. There IS a problem with lumping everybody from a certain race or ethnic group together and making comments that they are all like that. I would hope that some of you can re-read through your comments and hopefully make some changes with they way you think; it will be better for everyone in America if you can. I can't force anybody to change though, no matter how wrong their beliefs are so good luck in life and hopefully your children understand to think differently when they're grown as I really hope my kids don't even have to have this conversation with their own kids later in life.

racism has always been and will always be ,part of the human condition.

there is only a problem for those who are sensitive about it. my thoughts are generally ,get over it ,or don't. makes zero difference to me either way.

one can't be offended unless they CHOOSE to be offended.

has anyone stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, there would be less racism if folks weren't such pansies?????
.I do not group any one ethnicity into this comment, I believe anyone who is concerned over racism is a pansy.


besides ,is it really racist for a member of the supreme race , to believe they are of the supreme race when those from the lower races ,keep telling them it is so??????????

I do NOT believe myself to be racist BUT I AM very much prejudiced against those who are and claim not to be and act offended by pretty much any random comment ,anyone makes ,about any thing ,at any time.

 

[brsnow]

I recall a thread about trucks being broken into at trail heads in NM, don’t recall any ethnicities used to highlight the problem.

 

[kiddogy]

Wow... pretty interesting read!...I would have jumped in here earlier, but the title seemed liked another hunter's first world problem so didn't bother to read it. Very glad I did. First off, let start by saying I am Hmong. Secondly, I am quite disturbed to see such a credible hunting forum as Rockslide have a post like this. And third, I'm going to chime in, before this thread gets locked up.
So a brief background of myself, as I am more of a lurker and don't personal know anyone here, but truely appreciate all the great information on this site. I am first generation "American" born, here in the the great state of Montana, where I have lived most of my life. Grauduated high school and attended University of Montana with a BA in Geography/Cartography/GIS. Married with three unbelievable kids( 7yr old boy and 2yr old twin girls). Also, pround members of RMEF, TU, B&C Club and Pope and Young and local hunting organizations.
For those not in the known, a brief history lesson of who, what, where the Hmong people are. Hmong are mostly from Southeast Asia(Laos, Thailand, Vietnam) and some in Southern China. Hmong are hunters and gatherers that live in mountainous regions, who live off the land. The first immigrants to the U.S came after the end of the Vietnam war, where the Hmong people fought side by side with U.S. troops. One of the first refugee locations was Missoula, Montana, where a U.S. Forest Service smoke jumper turn CIA officer(the great Jerry Daniels)befriended a Hmong General(Vang Pao). This is how my grandfathers and grandmothers, aunts and uncles, and parents got to Montana. Fast forward 30 years later Hmong people are located all throughout the U.S. predominantly in California and Minnesota. It is estimated that there are 260k Hmong living in the U.S.
Thus, come full circle back to the OP comment of

"Who thinks its good to see the Hmong people getting outdoors and using our public lands?"

Sorry guy, this comment deserves to a contender for 2019 dumbest question post in a hunting forum. Sir, public lands means, public to all, including Hmong or any person, willing to enjoy these lands. I'm not going to play the race card because that is too easy. Instead, try to understand the purpose of this post. I can not say that your experiences with Hmong folks are true or false, elaborated or not. Only you know. And, trust me when I say, I have and many here on Rockslide would like to admit, unfortunately have done our fair share of picking up trash after others. But thank you for cleaning up the mess. What I can say is and many of my Hmong people will agree, is that we appreciate the land we hunt, live, and walk on. We respect all animals and we kill only what we will eat. Those that know me know I'm a big stickler for following the rules and going about things the legal way! Sure there are bad apples and we understand this more then others, as one bad thing is usually a black eye on the entire culture. I promise you, if you walk up to a individual Hmong person or a group of them, they are likely to be more timid of you. Not because they're doing something wrong, its part of our culture. We are taught to go about our own business, until someone comes and ask for help and not usually gun in hand to chat. So your likely never see a Hmong person encroach you at a hunting site, fishing hole, grocery store, etc, just to small talk. Some may proceed it as being rude, but we see it as not intruding in other's business. I'm also not going to comment on everything said about bad encounters with Hmong folks, but I can promise you there are likely more good ones then bad ones. But if shit is be done illegally, call your game and fish warden. A statement like, I call and nothing happen or warden don't care because the folks are enriching them is a big cop out. If these so called Hmong people are routinely illegally doing this, it is not going to help no one. So game and fish has to step in. Otherwise, folks are just going off hearsay!
So to the OP, I do not have a good suggestion for you that hadn't been cover already, but if your true main concern is the number of allocated deer licenses in that unit you hunt is over objective, you need to up that with your fish and game commission and not blame a certain ethnic group for legally purchasing them.

My question for you is if Hmong people no longer hunt this unit ever again, would you still have the same disesteem for Hmong folk. This OP is the question you need to seek. Also, feel free to PM me, with another questions or concerns. We may not come with every solution, but will better understand one another.
Lastly, on this ever long post of mine, a real big Thank You to all those folks that has post about seeing the bigger picture, I really appreciate it!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING too all of you!

well said . you are welcome to live hmong us.

 

[kiddogy]

I recall a thread about trucks being broken into at trail heads in NM, don’t recall any ethnicities used to highlight the problem.

no. but I'D wager it were the damn arkansaans

 

[kiddogy]

My entire family is from California, and liberal, and they’d be the first to tell you how effed up CA is.

and I'D wager , the last to tell you they are the problem.

 

[brsnow]

Politics aside, California provides a large portion of our revenue for federal spending and ranks really low on federal dependence. Good chance your state is a bigger drain on federal aid than California.

 

[jfs82]

Politics aside, California provides a large portion of our revenue for federal spending and ranks really low on federal dependence. Good chance your state is a bigger drain on federal aid than California.

Shh people like scapegoats

 

[Team4LongGun]

@MeatBuck. I am astonished at how ignorant and arrogant you are being. What makes you any more entitled to purchase a tag and hunt”our” public land than anyone else, race, creed or sex??? Of course there a couple bad apples in every bunch. Have you ever seen the local papers “cuffs and collars” section??? Full of stupid asshats illegally baiting, shining, over harvesting and poaching wild game. I will promise you, they are arrogant pricks just like you, thinking they deserve to take that animal. They are the same ones whining about someone else tagging out or finding the crappie hole when they couldn’t. Take your hate somewhere else. We are all here to share the love of the outdoors.




The only reason a deeper look is “needed” is because people didn’t jump on your discrimination band wagon.



You find a different area to hunt. Plain and simple.


@Michael54. Credit to you for a great reply.


For the record. I am a middle aged white guy that hunts my ass off to provide food for my family from the great resource of ALL of OUR public lands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very well put. Thanks for saving me the time and aggravation to respond to this ignorant, arrogant turd.

 

[Poser]

Wow... pretty interesting read!...I would have jumped in here earlier, but the title seemed liked another hunter's first world problem so didn't bother to read it. Very glad I did. First off, let start by saying I am Hmong. Secondly, I am quite disturbed to see such a credible hunting forum as Rockslide have a post like this. And third, I'm going to chime in, before this thread gets locked up.
So a brief background of myself, as I am more of a lurker and don't personal know anyone here, but truely appreciate all the great information on this site. I am first generation "American" born, here in the the great state of Montana, where I have lived most of my life. Grauduated high school and attended University of Montana with a BA in Geography/Cartography/GIS. Married with three unbelievable kids( 7yr old boy and 2yr old twin girls). Also, pround members of RMEF, TU, B&C Club and Pope and Young and local hunting organizations.
For those not in the known, a brief history lesson of who, what, where the Hmong people are. Hmong are mostly from Southeast Asia(Laos, Thailand, Vietnam) and some in Southern China. Hmong are hunters and gatherers that live in mountainous regions, who live off the land. The first immigrants to the U.S came after the end of the Vietnam war, where the Hmong people fought side by side with U.S. troops. One of the first refugee locations was Missoula, Montana, where a U.S. Forest Service smoke jumper turn CIA officer(the great Jerry Daniels)befriended a Hmong General(Vang Pao). This is how my grandfathers and grandmothers, aunts and uncles, and parents got to Montana. Fast forward 30 years later Hmong people are located all throughout the U.S. predominantly in California and Minnesota. It is estimated that there are 260k Hmong living in the U.S.
Thus, come full circle back to the OP comment of

"Who thinks its good to see the Hmong people getting outdoors and using our public lands?"

Sorry guy, this comment deserves to a contender for 2019 dumbest question post in a hunting forum. Sir, public lands means, public to all, including Hmong or any person, willing to enjoy these lands. I'm not going to play the race card because that is too easy. Instead, try to understand the purpose of this post. I can not say that your experiences with Hmong folks are true or false, elaborated or not. Only you know. And, trust me when I say, I have and many here on Rockslide would like to admit, unfortunately have done our fair share of picking up trash after others. But thank you for cleaning up the mess. What I can say is and many of my Hmong people will agree, is that we appreciate the land we hunt, live, and walk on. We respect all animals and we kill only what we will eat. Those that know me know I'm a big stickler for following the rules and going about things the legal way! Sure there are bad apples and we understand this more then others, as one bad thing is usually a black eye on the entire culture. I promise you, if you walk up to a individual Hmong person or a group of them, they are likely to be more timid of you. Not because they're doing something wrong, its part of our culture. We are taught to go about our own business, until someone comes and ask for help and not usually gun in hand to chat. So your likely never see a Hmong person encroach you at a hunting site, fishing hole, grocery store, etc, just to small talk. Some may proceed it as being rude, but we see it as not intruding in other's business. I'm also not going to comment on everything said about bad encounters with Hmong folks, but I can promise you there are likely more good ones then bad ones. But if shit is be done illegally, call your game and fish warden. A statement like, I call and nothing happen or warden don't care because the folks are enriching them is a big cop out. If these so called Hmong people are routinely illegally doing this, it is not going to help no one. So game and fish has to step in. Otherwise, folks are just going off hearsay!
So to the OP, I do not have a good suggestion for you that hadn't been cover already, but if your true main concern is the number of allocated deer licenses in that unit you hunt is over objective, you need to up that with your fish and game commission and not blame a certain ethnic group for legally purchasing them.

My question for you is if Hmong people no longer hunt this unit ever again, would you still have the same disesteem for Hmong folk. This OP is the question you need to seek. Also, feel free to PM me, with another questions or concerns. We may not come with every solution, but will better understand one another.
Lastly, on this ever long post of mine, a real big Thank You to all those folks that has post about seeing the bigger picture, I really appreciate it!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING too all of you!

Thanks for posting this.

 

[jspradley]

There are a few posts on here that warrant the WTF of the Week Award... jesus christ.

 

[IBDAMN]

Here's some screenshots from a YouTube video I watched the other day.

This is what California public land deer hunting looks like these days.

Who sees this as an issue?

Who thinks its good to see the Hmong people getting outdoors and using our public lands?

Who thinks this is out of control and simply unacceptable for... name your reason?

Let's hear your opinions about group hunting and in particular Hmong groups or "Teams" as they are calling themselves.

View attachment 135835View attachment 135833View attachment 135834View attachment 135832View attachment 135831View attachment 135830

The only issue I see reading through this post is some racist woodpeck trying to stir up the colored pot again. Your bandwagon ideology is what’s wrong with the hunting community and hunting grounds here in COMMIFORNIA.

You must hate yourself everyday, knowing you live among “FREE” people who can see and call out your BS. We’re not going anywhere, we have every right to hunt and enjoy these public grounds as much as some narrow minded woodpeck like you. Soon your era of thought will be just a wash and will never be a reminder of how our hunting community should be.

Pecker away, that’s the only thing you’ll ever understand.