PayPal Question for sellers

[Mule3006Elk]

I sell items every now and then. What/where is the risk to seller?

For example, I sell an item and the buyer pays. 2) I check PayPal and the funds are there. 3) Regarding risk/scam mitigation, can I send the item to the buyer at this point or do I need to wait for the fund to be transferred to my personal account?

I understand, if I send an item before the buyer pays it's a risk.

If I approach the sell in the above mentioned fashion (1-3) do I need to request G&S still? I understand the protection but how can I get burned following the 1-3 approach? With this approach is F&F fine from the seller perspective.

If I request G&S, the buyer can make the purchase how they so choose. If I request G&S, they pay F&F, how do you regular sellers handle that situation. My guess is the risk is on the buyer and the seller is free and clear for any mishap (shipping, etc.).

Thanks for taking the time to review/comment on my PayPal newbie questions.

 

[tony]

Funds stay in your PP account until you move them to your personal bank or buy something with your PP money. Pretty sure PP makes money off your dough while its in their system

Regarding the above, if it shows up in your PP account and there is no "hold" ship the item. PP is known to hold money with ebay sales on occasion

You can say buyer pays the fee, universally people say 3%. Just google PP calculator.
Me? I just factor the fee in or a low buck item, I just cover it.

Unless you really know the buyer and then, never, never pay with friends and family. I can say with complete honestly I've never screwed anyone in any sale I've ever did online. And everything I've ever bought from forums, the dealings have been fine.

Something I have done since my days of selling heavy on ebay, I opened a separate checking account for PP. As PP has access to whatever account you link to your PP account.

 

[fwafwow]

You can get scammed as a seller, especially if the buyer pays with G&S. Nothing replaces favorable feedback and due diligence on the buyer. There are other threads including some posts by me on this topic. Every time I think about selling something I wonder if it is worth the hassle and risk.

 

[yfarm]

Only sell with G&S
when you list, full disclosure of every flaw on the item. Been on both sides of this issue and when I sell every single thing anyone can question is on the listing. Otherwise you will get that email requesting a refund. Another issue is the buyer who claims they didnt receive the item and the shipper says it was delivered. Who pays for that? Good luck with USPS or UPS. Received an amazon delivery the other day, was standing by the door, held my hand out and the delivery guy walked by me, laid the package by the door, took a picture, picked up the package and handed it to me. Said it was the policy.

 

[Timeless61]

As the seller and you accept the G&S payment, not F&F the risk is after the sale and after you ship basically.

I have been burned. PayPal generally sides with the buyer. In one of the times I was taken, I sent the item, did everything as I should. The buyer received and said not as described or something of that nature, PayPal refunded, and he sent back a different item. So I was out the item and money. But no way to prove what was actually shipped. Because of this, I only do F&F but really prefer USPS money orders at this point. I am also clear on who is responsible for what and what I will do or not do as seller if there is an issue.

 

[Rich M]

Dont forget anything over $600 gets reported to irs.

 

[fwafwow]

As the seller and you accept the G&S payment, not F&F the risk is after the sale and after you ship basically.

I have been burned. PayPal generally sides with the buyer. In one of the times I was taken, I sent the item, did everything as I should. The buyer received and said not as described or something of that nature, PayPal refunded, and he sent back a different item. So I was out the item and money. But no way to prove what was actually shipped. Because of this, I only do F&F but really prefer USPS money orders at this point. I am also clear on who is responsible for what and what I will do or not do as seller if there is an issue.

Good additions. Many buyers also assume that hobby sellers are the same as retailers in that buyers will hold you responsible for anything related to shipping - even a theft from their porch. From my perspective, I’m not in the business of selling stuff, so I make it clear I’m responsible for delivering to UPS and sending tracking. If they want insurance then that’s fine (sometimes I include it in the price) but that’s their only recourse. For smaller value items it’s not something I am so adamant about and I basically self insure.

Buyers are understandably reluctant to use F&F, so for a buyer I trust (because I know the buyer, there is good feedback or I’ve done good due diligence), then I’m fine with G&S - but they need to pay extra.

The $600 reporting rule is of zero concern to me, and I’m over it.

 

[Rob5589]

Scams happen, even when performing ones due diligence. I don't ask for F&F (against PP policy) nor will accept it unless it's someone that I feel I can trust. A USPS money order is another route which I have used many times both as buyer and seller. Just another option.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

All great feedback.

How to do I make sure they pay G&S? I'm missing this part.

If I state, only accept G&S and they pay F&F do I refund the money?

Thanks

 

[fwafwow]

All great feedback.

How to do I make sure they pay G&S? I'm missing this part.

If I state, only accept G&S and they pay F&F do I refund the money?

Thanks

I don’t understand why you would insist on G&S if you are the seller.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

I don’t understand why you would insist on G&S if you are the seller.

Same.

That's what I'm trying to understand. Everything I've read says don't use F&F unless you know the person personally. I PM'd a very WKR and they said the same. From a seller perspective is this not the case?

I'm just trying to do my part not to get scammed. I sell low $ items but still trying to avoid scams. I don't sell often but I don't want to be naive.

Thanks

 

[fwafwow]

Same.

That's what I'm trying to understand. Everything I've read says don't use F&F unless you know the person personally. I PM'd a very WKR and they said the same. From a seller perspective is this not the case?

I'm just trying to do my part not to get scammed. I sell low $ items but still trying to avoid scams. I don't sell often but I don't want to be naive.

Thanks

I think the “don’t use F&F” mantra is aimed at buyers. As a seller, I don’t know why one would want G&S, as it gives a potential scammer an angle to exploit.

Again, nothing will eliminate scam risk. Due diligence is still a must IMHO. I’ve turned down sales on RS when something didn’t feel right.

 

[Rich M]

So johnny buys a $500 scope from you using f&f. You send it and he doesn’t get it. He’s outta luck.

If johnny uses regular paypal, then seller is out $500 if scope doesn’t show.

If it was insured he gets his money back and nothing out of seller’s pocket. Wow.

Why not tack on the extra $x$ and insure stuff? The first 2 options have a loser, the last option, everyone kinda wins.

As for scams, you ship when its paid for. Use regular paypal and shipping insurance.

Not exactly rocket science but saving $20 on shiping insurance never tasted as bad as when you got screwed cause you were cheap. Goes both ways.

Love the attitudes on here. Why i spend the couple extra bucks and buy retail.

 

[fwafwow]

If you are referring to my attitude, let me clarify my point of view. Shipping insurance is a separate issue from FF vs GS. I don’t care if a buyer wants G&S because I won’t sell to someone if I doubt them. But G&S benefits the buyer, not the seller. I also like to have shipping insurance on items I sell, for the reasons I’ve posted.

But the OP’s question is narrow and the G&S method is a way to possibly be scammed. You sell Johnny a scope for $500 paid via G&S. You don’t ship until you get the PP funds. Then Johnny claims that you sent an empty box, or a box with something other than the scope and he makes a claim against PP. He will most likely get his money back. You are out your scope, and depending on what is claimed, you may or may not get paid under the insurance policy, as I don’t think shipping insurance covers all possible outcomes with respect to a package that doesn’t get received.

 

[Team4LongGun]

It's very simple, and quite literal. Friends and family is for just that, FRIENDS AND FAMILY. I won't make a purchase without good and services, because, well I'm buying a good from an unknown entity.

As a seller, no matter what method you choose-USPS, UPS, PP, EBAY etc, there is always an inherent risk someone could say you sent an empty box. But now were way down the line of hypotheticals, at this stage it's just not worth it to buy or sell used at all.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Love the attitudes on here. Why i spend the couple extra bucks and buy retail.

Funny, you seem to have an attitude about insurance. To each his own, right? However, the OP asked about FF vs G&S. I would bet that same $20 bucks you'd change your attitude towards friends and family once you have been scammed by it. Just a different perspective....

 

[fwafwow]

As a seller, no matter what method you choose-USPS, UPS, PP, EBAY etc, there is always an inherent risk someone could say you sent an empty box. But now were way down the line of hypotheticals, at this stage it's just not worth it to buy or sell used at all.

This^^^. One of my biggest mistakes was to join a FB group that publicizes scammers, especially in the knife buying and selling community. I was amazed at the lengths to which scammers will go and it has made me somewhat paranoid, and it has made me have the same view of buying and selling used.

 

[displacedtexan]

Scams happen, even when performing ones due diligence. I don't ask for F&F (against PP policy) nor will accept it unless it's someone that I feel I can trust. A USPS money order is another route which I have used many times both as buyer and seller. Just another option.

This is key.

It's against policy, and they will kill your account/seize funds if they catch you violating policy.

Unless it's an actual friend, G&S only for me.

I know people who have lost significant chunks of money when caught violating terms.

 

[snowymtnwolf]

Items over a few hundred dollars requires an adult signature to protect seller. I always get that option over anything I sell for more than $200.


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[Theringworm]

When using ”Goods & Services”, unless you sell a lot of stuff and use PayPal or if you arrange shipping using PayPal, PayPal will hold your money for 24 hours AFTER the package was delivered. This gives the buyer 24 hours to make a claim. So, the days of waiting for payment to clear and then shipping are long gone with “Goods & Services”. It is however still the case with “Friends & Family”.

I video all sides of the item being sold, the entire process of me packaging it and boxing it up and labels secured to the outside. In my for sale posting everything is documented to a T and at the end of the description I include, “item as is described above. All sales final, No returns”.

The buyer knows then and there it’s now a risk on them as they are entering into the sale under their own free will under my terms”. I might get less traffic on my item but it hasn’t prevented me from selling anything yet.