Petition Against Proposed Signal Peak Trail In Gunnison

[elkduds]

You are disagreeing w every agency, organization and entity that ever studied wildlife and habitat. Reading is FUNdamental.

 

[Shooter19802003]

Maybe so. However, people find studies to defend their positions....nothing new there. Just like how everybody knew for a fact the earth was flat and you could sail right off the edge. Funny how science and facts change.

 

[tttoadman]

To say that animals adapt because they will hang out with you on your porch and eat out of a landfill is not a great argument. I would much rather see animals remain wild and afraid of us. I think the reason deer flock to suburbs in my neck of the woods anyway is to get away from predators. Sad that they have to hang out with me and my dogs and take their chances with poachers than get ran down by the overpopulated cats in OR.

 

[tipsntails7]

I disagree with you elkduds. Animals aren't as fragile as we all make them out to be. Species adapt...come and go. You take away some of the woods, the deer move to the alfalfa field or your lawn. Look at how many bear hang out at landfills. We hunt ducks in fields here just like geese now. They adapt and overcome and if not, they are replaced by the species that do. Not saying It is right or wrong, just the way it is.

This is arguably the most clueless thing I've ever seen regarding wildlife.

Species just go... we don't get new ones, the same can be said for suitable habitat.

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[Bulldawg]

I disagree with you elkduds. Animals aren't as fragile as we all make them out to be. Species adapt...come and go. You take away some of the woods, the deer move to the alfalfa field or your lawn. Look at how many bear hang out at landfills. We hunt ducks in fields here just like geese now. They adapt and overcome and if not, they are replaced by the species that do. Not saying It is right or wrong, just the way it is.

Yeah where are these species coming from that are replacing extinct species??

Based on your thoughts, we shouldn't worry about habitat, trash it and completely disregard, tear down habitat to make it a road or neighborhood and the animals will just adapt and we don't have to worry about them. Soon enough we'll just be hunting elk off our backporches and shooting mule deer off the front.

 

[KurtR]

I disagree with you elkduds. Animals aren't as fragile as we all make them out to be. Species adapt...come and go. You take away some of the woods, the deer move to the alfalfa field or your lawn. Look at how many bear hang out at landfills. We hunt ducks in fields here just like geese now. They adapt and overcome and if not, they are replaced by the species that do. Not saying It is right or wrong, just the way it is.

Are you saying hunting ducks in fields is some thing new? My grandpa has pics from the 60's of having old wood mallard dekes in the fields here killing ducks.

 

[Shooter19802003]

Sometimes this place is like arguing with retarded kids. You know your not going to win...but it's still fun. Not new species...but others. Here the moose are way down, however the deer numbers are through the roof. One goes...the other takes its place. Nothing new. As far as the duck hunting goes, yes that is new here. I can't speak to your area because I don't care and I don't live there. As agricultural land increases here it is amazing to watch the animals adapt. Again, not saying it is good or bad....just the way it is. Yes, I can shoot dear and all off my porch, the moose are harder to come by these days though. The funny thing is most of you guys are just regurgitating things you hear about because you don't live anywhere remotely close to it. It is some place that you goto every once in awhile for a hunt then leave. Or read about online or a magazine. Then you want to try and shut down the folks who live it every day. In fact I am typing this now from the Lolo national forest, where i can't believe I actually have a signal. For most of you....go ahead and look that up.

 

[Bulldawg]

Ok shooter, I still think you are not correct but that was not the purpose of this thread.

I posted this up to let those here know what is going on where many people on here would probably like to go hunt one day, as the Gunnison valley has some phenomenal deer hunting. Most folks know that the winter this year was rough on the deer and we at the Gunnison Wildlife Association, believe that this trail system is a step in the wrong direction for conservation for these animals.

In my own personal opinion, there are enough trails and roads especially in Gunnison, but there are fewer and fewer roadless and trail less areas. I have signed the petition and called and emailed folks hoping to do my part and stop the proposed trail here. Although winter closures will be in affect this trail will still be open during some critical times when animals are vulnerable.

These are the county commissioners that we have been emailing and I will get the correct info for the BLM office in town and whomever else we should be contacting.

County Commissioners

Phil Chamberland
[email protected]

John Messner
[email protected]

Jonathan Houck
[email protected]

Have a great day guys


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[Shooter19802003]

And we can agree to disagree. I respect that. I have no dog in this fight. Since I no longer live in colorado......i no longer participate in local politics. You live there and if that is the way you want it.....thats cool.

 

[chindits]

you don't live anywhere remotely close to it

you funny

 

[Shooter19802003]

you funny

I do my best.

 

[Gobbler36]

There are a few things in life that make me laugh. One of them is the argument that we must save everything. Species come and go. That is the way it is. Man, with his infinite wisdom feels it is our duty to control all things. The second is the argument that animals go away for good never to be seen again when people come around. Apparently they have never been to Custer NP, Yellowstone NP, or rocky mountain NP. There are a lot of folks through there and critters of all shapes and sizes literally walk up to the car. I see more deer at my place than I do in the woods at any given time and I am in the woods more than most. My dog makes a game out of chasing deer out of the immediate yard, but guess what.....in 20 minutes they are back and the cycle repeats. Same with turkeys. Had one the other day that walked across my porch, pecked my dog in the melon then flew off. I have a chessie....so he is small by no means. Animals adapt and you aren't getting rid of them as easily as some would lead you to believe.

This argument carries absolutely no weight with me, so you're telling me that wild turkeys who were almost extrapated within their range were just gonna fade away by natural causes because "that's the way it is" no we did that and then we also brought them back, to believe all species especially ones that are doing great and then their numbers drop off a table is just "the way it is" is nieve. Elk have that same story, why over the last 10 years has the Mule deer been continuing to decline? I am not sure I understand the whole answer but I gather that all the fru fru subdivisions in their winter range plays a big part.

Anyhow signed if they have plenty of current trails why open another one? Even if they are on their way out I'd rather help out all the sage grouse or Mule deer I could.

Again it's gonna take some inconvience on our part to make sure certain species continue to still exist and I think this issue falls right into that.

 

[mfolch]

Obviously, historically, animals do not come back. They tend to be replaced by groups of other species (often invasive) which are better-adapted to human co-habitation. So, the biodiversity in one environment, when pressured by humans, is replaced by a different kind of biodiversity. Basically, on the east coast, wolves, mountain lions, panthers, moose, red and flying squirrels, rare and migratory birds, etc., are killed off by humans or simply cannot live alongside humans, and are replaced by feral pigs, rats, pigeons, whitetail, and deer ticks, which do not mind, or even flourish by feeding off our lawns and garbage.

It's really a toss-up: Do we want to preserve wild species or do we want the US to be transformed into a sort of suburb, with the same six or seven kinds of animals over and over again, spread over the continent? I, for one, would rather live in a world in which we have made the decision to preserve life forms that might otherwise have died off. But I can see that there are those kinds of people who would rather be surrounded by rats and feral pigs.

 

[Jason Snyder]

https://eplanning.blm.gov/epl-front...104341/127909/Signal_Peak_Proposed_Action.pdf

Here is the official document that speaks to environmental concerns and mitigation measures.

Reading through it, I think they did a pretty comprehensive job of following policy and law. Are there specific concerns that I'm missing here? I'm not really sure why I would want to oppose this plan.

 

[Jason Snyder]

A few random thoughts on some things discussed in this thread:

I know where the Lolo is, what the hell does that have to do with anything?

Some species are more adaptable than others. Obligate species (look that up) are not adaptable in any way. We can either make the choice to 1) try to save them or 2) say screw it. Everything in life is a balance, and I think it's disingenuous to think we can't balance sage grouse with national and local interests

Collaborative efforts don't always give every group exactly what they want. If the bigger issue is expanding the time frame of winter range closure, then focus on that instead of one trail.

Habitat productions on a large scale level are incredibly important, particularly in areas where migrating populations have existed and evolved.

Comparing a duck to a sage grouse is silly.

I would recommend engaging the local bike club(s) in conversation about wildlife concerns and try to garner their support for educational efforts.