Schmidt & Bender PMII 6x42 P3 1/10mil Capped Turrets Special Release $1999.99

[Wrongside]

Outside of glass quality, why would you pick this over an SWFA 6x at 10% the cost?

It’s way ‘cleaner’ looking? Zero-stop, and better glass?

Definitely hard to justify the price difference. But sometimes a guy just wants something ‘nicer’.

 

[atmat]

It’s way ‘cleaner’ looking? Zero-stop, and better glass?

Definitely hard to justify the price difference. But sometimes a guy just wants something ‘nicer’.

That’s fine and all but at 9-10x the cost that’s incredibly diminished returns.

 

[stealthgoat]

Yeh it was two different actions with a decade different vintages. Two different Smith’s checked them for square. While not perfect they weren’t so out of whack that S&B scope just doesn’t have a lot of elevation as is.

I have two Win 70's that I hunted for years with other scopes, but discovered do not enough windage adjustment for the 3-12x42 Klassic.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

If someone wants one of these scopes, in the past at least, they could be special ordered through Eurooptic. It's not a quick turn around from time of order and they aren't cheap.

I use 3 of these. They are my preferred hunting scope. I use a lot of different scopes, but I have a strong affinity for 6x42 scopes. I think these are the best ones made.

To me, the following are the pro's:
1. Reliable: They have been perfectly reliable for me. One survived an ~25' drop from a stand. When I checked zero, the 5 shot group was .2 mil low at 109 yards...and that may have been related to the stock/barreled action shifting.
2. Simple: simple things last. Fewer things to break. It's always on the right power. Adjust and shoot.
3. Excellent adjustments
4. Excellent 4 post, measured reticle
5. Excellent in low light - great glass, bold reticle to subtend from 4 evenly spaced outer bars, fewer lenses compared to a variable or a fixed with parallax is less light lost per lens surface. Apart from increasing power and objective size, it's very hard to beat in low light.
6. Light weight, slim, trim.
7. Lack of parallax adjustment (exception here for rimfire)
8. As much adjustment as I'll need and no way to get lost on revolutions.
9. Low profile turrets

To me, the following are the con's:
1. Dials are very tightly spaced on adjustments. Clicks are clear and clean but extremely close together. Each "mark" on the dial is .2 mil - there are two clicks between each mark...and they are tight. I would prefer it be a 10 mil single turn dial with more spacing between clicks than the 13 mil dial.
2. Cost
3. Availability

I'm a huge fan of the 6x SWFA as well and use more of them than the PMII (cost/availability). For the $ the SWFA can not be beat. For big game hunting, I prefer the PMII, and it's not by a little bit I prefer it. For targets, I prefer the SWFA.

 

[fwafwow]

If someone wants one of these scopes, in the past at least, they could be special ordered through Eurooptic. It's not a quick turn around from time of order and they aren't cheap.

I use 3 of these. They are my preferred hunting scope. I use a lot of different scopes, but I have a strong affinity for 6x42 scopes. I think these are the best ones made.

To me, the following are the pro's:
1. Reliable: They have been perfectly reliable for me. One survived an ~25' drop from a stand. When I checked zero, the 5 shot group was .2 mil low at 109 yards...and that may have been related to the stock/barreled action shifting.
2. Simple: simple things last. Fewer things to break. It's always on the right power. Adjust and shoot.
3. Excellent adjustments
4. Excellent 4 post, measured reticle
5. Excellent in low light - great glass, bold reticle to subtend from 4 evenly spaced outer bars, fewer lenses compared to a variable or a fixed with parallax is less light lost per lens surface. Apart from increasing power and objective size, it's very hard to beat in low light.
6. Light weight, slim, trim.
7. Lack of parallax adjustment (exception here for rimfire)
8. As much adjustment as I'll need and no way to get lost on revolutions.
9. Low profile turrets

To me, the following are the con's:
1. Dials are very tightly spaced on adjustments. Clicks are clear and clean but extremely close together. Each "mark" on the dial is .2 mil - there are two clicks between each mark...and they are tight. I would prefer it be a 10 mil single turn dial with more spacing between clicks than the 13 mil dial.
2. Cost
3. Availability

I'm a huge fan of the 6x SWFA as well and use more of them than the PMII (cost/availability). For the $ the SWFA can not be beat. For big game hunting, I prefer the PMII, and it's not by a little bit I prefer it. For targets, I prefer the SWFA.

Thanks so much for this. I have to admit, however, that after reading it I still can't decide whether it has tipped me over the edge to backorder another SWFA 6x, to order my first 10x (why not at that price?), or to start scouring for a PMII.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Thanks so much for this. I have to admit, however, that after reading it I still can't decide whether it has tipped me over the edge to backorder another SWFA 6x, to order my first 10x (why not at that price?), or to start scouring for a PMII.

I don't think it's ever a bad thing to have a SWFA 6x on order. I like to have one mounted/leveled in pic rings for any rifle that might come along unexpectedly. I'm not going to do that with a PMII.

On that same note, I keep a lone 10x SWFA mounted in pic rings with a level for load development on new rifles...but honestly, I usually just mount and use the scope I plan to put on the rifle. One thing I do use the 10x for when sighting in a non-measured reticle on a rifle is measuring adjustments. I need to break down and get a spotter with a mil reference but I haven't.

 

[Marbles]

Are you really arguing with Big Stick? It’s gonna be like hitting yourself in the foot with a hammer until it doesn’t hurt anymore.

It's a fun trick when someone does not know you are a below the knee amputee.

I did give myself a time out for it though, because bad behavior is bad behavior.

 

[gbflyer]

It's a fun trick when someone does not know you are a below the knee amputee.

I did give myself a time out for it though, because bad behavior is bad behavior.

Dude is a legend on Snipers Hide. I understand he’s solid privately but loves to stir the pot on the forums. Pretty sure he lives not to far from me, that is in Alaska terms. It’s very wet outside, a feller has to pass the time somehow. Haha.

 

[Kimber7man]

I’ll concede parallax and lack of illumination… but this model had 13 mil travel with one of the best hunting reticles on the market. And it was <17 oz.

You are correct, except it was 20 oz and had exposed windage single turn turret.

Like @JCMCUBIC, I tried one out. Original version had tunneling issues so Doug was graceful enough to exchange it for a 10X.

I also have the Klassik 3-12x42 and 3-12x50 with P3/P3L reticles on hunting rifles. Sent 3 of them in to S&B this summer to change out to the 4.8 mil dials. They work like champs...

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Yeah, the first one I received had major issues. I compared it with 6x Klassics that I was using and it was massive tunneling that affected the FOV greatly when viewing a measured grid at 50 yards. Huge black donut around the view. When I contacted Doug at CameralandNY he immediately refunded my $ and I mailed the scope back. I remember Doug's words saying "you shouldn't have to deal with any issues, send it back to me". Big props to him.

To my surprise, weeks later I receive a 6x PMII in the mail from S&B USA. No communication, just showed up. I asked Doug about it and he didn't know anything about one being sent to me. I paid him to make it right since he'd done the group buy. The returned version was great, and I've picked up 2 more since.

According to my notes, the weight of the 6x PMII is 19.4 oz, so it's not as light as a 6x Klassic. My 6x Klassic's with BDC are all mounted and I don't have notes one their weights. I'm a fan of the 6x Klassic but what I love about the PMII is the ability to hold windage with the P3...like Kimber7man, I'm a fan of the P3/P3L's with 3 6x PMII's and 2 3-12x42's in use.