Separating Muzzy and Archery in Colo..

[bsnedeker]

I'm sure this will be a hugely unpopular opinion but I think muzzleloader, rifle, and maybe even archery tags should require a signficantly higher level of certification than just a hunters safety course, including the addition of a proficiency test with your chosen weapon. Splitting seasons or adding orange requirements doesn't address the underlying issue that you have negligently stupid people going out onto public land and shooting at movement.

Do I have any confidence that a state agency in a state like Colorado could come up with a certification and test that meant anything and wasn't just a money making scheme? Absolutely not. But one can dream.

Here's the problem: You can take all the certification classes you want. You can require whatever advanced degrees in hunting that make you feel more comfortable. At the end of the day, when out in the field, some guys lose their god damned minds and blast away at anything that moves and give zero thought to the potential outcome. There's no certification course in the world that is going to fix that in my opinion.

I'm a bit of a pessimist.

 

[streetdoctor]

Neither. If they separate seasons archery hunters will lose.

 

[wildwilderness]

Wear orange- the animals are color blind! Many hunters are just too prideful, it’s just a knee jerk reaction of being “told” what to do

If they separate the seasons then archery is guaranteed to loose hunting days!!

 

[tdhanses]

With a decision upcoming at the wildlife commission meeting coming up in a couple weeks I historically thought that the working relationship between muzzy and archery worked but with the rising level of extreme crowding in many places I am evolving my opinion to think that it would be best to separate archery and muzzy as well as rifle seasons for a host of reasons. If memory is correct there has been 2 deaths recently as well as quite a few more close calls and it is clear the cpw commission will act. I guess we are past the part where you can trust the other hunter to know their target and the deaths confirm that this is a true statement.

So we will either get hunter orange for archery guys or moving muzzy out of archery..... Talking to folks inside the cpw process this much is clear.

I think the best outcome for the most folks would be to return archery to its 30+ year historical start date or a week earlier - then run muzzy after archery is finished. If this is not acceptable I would be open to a split season again with archery returning to opening earlier or more of a historical opening then close archery for muzzy and rifle then re open for the final 2 weeks.

On the surface I think separation will significantly reduce crowding and save lives it would be a change but the best hunters can adapt and I think it would actually help hunting in Colorado.

Fair to say it is going to go one of 2 ways so what say you do you want separate seasons or we get hunter orange in archery?

So what about bear rifle?

 

[Poser]

Comments in the various hunting FB groups are predictably blaming this potential Orange policy on “liberals” “libtards ” and “sheeple”

 

[Coveyleader]

I hate to say it, colaboración should be rear view mirror. We have lost way too much in Colorado as archers to just keep “settling”

Put them in the quiet time, I could care less how many days.

 

[Vandy321]

Do I understand this correctly, a ML hunter shoots an archery hunter and the MLers get rewarded with a proposal to move ML to the end of Sept and into Oct? Dates which have seemingly become peak rut in CO.

Is this a joke?

Hypothetical question, it's CPW, the entire organization is a joke.

 

[Felix40]

Or……leave it like it is and let the people decide on their own safety! At the very most they should add a page to the proclamation warning bowhunters that CPW has decided to put a bunch of gun hunters in with them in September. Encourage hunter orange and let people decide how much tolerance for risk they have.

I don’t like getting shit on as a bow hunter but there’s no way they are moving all the bear/deer rifle tags plus all the muzzleloader tags. (The ideal solution)

The way I see it, the changes need to be made in the courts. We should be pushing for anyone who kills another hunter to be locked up for a long long time. The threat of life in prison is the only real deterrent I can see for people to be more responsible.

I guess I have a strange outlook on personal responsibility though.

 

[CoHiCntry]

We have lost way too much in Colorado as archers to just keep “settling”

What losses? Not a confrontational question, I'm actually curious to know.

 

[CoHiCntry]

So what about bear rifle?

Crickets... to your point there's more than just muzzleloader hunters during September archery season. What happens to all of them?

 

[Felix40]

What losses? Not a confrontational question, I'm actually curious to know.

They moved the season back so now high country mule deer has less time and more crowding.

They added rifle deer tags to a bunch of high country mule deer units.

They added rifle bear during all of archery season.

They added ML in the middle of archery season.

Ideally they would fix all these things but we all know that won’t happen.

 

[tdhanses]

Crickets... to your point there's more than just muzzleloader hunters during September archery season. What happens to all of them?

Yeah it’s always crickets, even CPW didn’t address it. I like archery and ML hunting, rotate every other year and my hunting buddy always does archery. I’d prefer nothing change but if something does i’d prefer a 2 weeks season with ml and other rifle seasons combined, give archery the first 2 weeks of Sep and last week of Aug. Give ML and rifle the last 2 weeks of Sep.

 

[Coveyleader]

What losses? Not a confrontational question, I'm actually curious to know.

A couple off the top of my head…..

We just lost a day or so with the new season structure.

OTCs turned to draw while rifle seasons remain.

S32 used to be archery only, pilot year rifles added and have remained ever since.

G5 used to be archery only, now rifles allowed in portions of the unit.

HC deer hunts added to archery season rendering those hills toast for HC archers.

Tag allocation for archery dropped, OTC forced to draw, meanwhile tags upped on the rifle side for antelope.

 

[CoHiCntry]

They moved the season back so now high country mule deer has less time and more crowding.

They added rifle deer tags to a bunch of high country mule deer units.

They added rifle bear during all of archery season.

They added ML in the middle of archery season.

Ideally they would fix all these things but we all know that won’t happen.

I don't know the season structure for archery from the very beginning. As long as I can remember most of the seasons you pointed out have been concurrent.

ML during archery, and bear rifle during archery have been going on at least the last 20 years, probably much more than that? I don't remember when the early mule deer seasons started affecting archery? It's been quite awhile though. I guess my thought would be... most guy's archery hunting on this forum probably weren't even archery hunting at all before these changes took place so it would be hard to call them "losses" if you never had it in the first place?

 

[Coveyleader]

Crickets... to your point there's more than just muzzleloader hunters during September archery season. What happens to all of them?

Everyone has their own selfish “wants” but the elephant in the room so to speak in September are the MLs.

 

[tdhanses]

Everyone has their own selfish “wants” but the elephant in the room so to speak in September are the MLs.

Truthfully archery is the worst management tool out there which is why it’s had such a long season but archery will be the first to lose out in this battle, I wouldn’t be shocked if archery is reduced to 2 weeks at some point with no rifle/ml seasons during. Before you clap just think of all the added pressure there will now be when it’s a 2 weeks season.

In reality archery could use a reduction and move to 100% draw.

What sucks though is this will drastically increase pt creep for ML. I mean in most units there are maybe 150 or fewer ML hunters per species vs 1,000’s of archery for elk and deer, if the archery pressure is removed ML will become more desirable and we’ll nolonger see 0-2pt ML units. But if archery moves to a 2 week season and 100% draw they’ll have to cut tags as well due to pressure.

 

[Felix40]

I don't know the season structure for archery from the very beginning. As long as I can remember most of the seasons you pointed out have been concurrent.

ML during archery, and bear rifle during archery have been going on at least the last 20 years, probably much more than that? I don't remember when the early mule deer seasons started affecting archery? It's been quite awhile though. I guess my thought would be... most guy's archery hunting on this forum probably weren't even archery hunting at all before these changes took place so it would be hard to call them "losses" if you never had it in the first place?

The unit I bowhunt deer got the rifle deer hunt like 6 years ago. Also the bear licenses got dropped to $100 for non residents recently. This September I saw way more bear hunters carrying rifles than I did elk or deer hunters with bows.

The first 10 days of archery is when most people want to hunt high country deer. When they cut 5-7 days off they basically doubled the amount of pressure in the first week by making all those guys hunt the same 5-7 days now.

 

[CoHiCntry]

A couple off the top of my head…..

We just lost a day or so with the new season structure.

OTCs turned to draw while rifle seasons remain.

S32 used to be archery only, pilot year rifles added and have remained ever since.

G5 used to be archery only, now rifles allowed in portions of the unit.

HC deer hunts added to archery season rendering those hills toast for HC archers.

Tag allocation for archery dropped, OTC forced to draw, meanwhile tags upped on the rifle side for antelope.

Yeah, I can see if you were an archery only hunter where these things could be perceived as losses. I really don't see it that way. One can't deny the benefits of being an archery hunter as far as season lengths and archery only hunts available.

 

[tdhanses]

The unit I bowhunt deer got the rifle deer hunt like 6 years ago. Also the bear licenses got dropped to $100 for non residents recently. This September I saw way more bear hunters carrying rifles than I did elk or deer hunters with bows.

Bear rifle is still limited bet there’s maybe 100-200 tags in your unit vs 1,000’s of archery hunters. The price reduction is because bear populations have blown up and are having a significant impact on fawns and calves, this made it an incentive as bear is usually not high on most peoples lists for a $400 tag.

 

[svivian]

Wear orange- the animals are color blind! Many hunters are just too prideful, it’s just a knee jerk reaction of being “told” what to do

If they separate the seasons then archery is guaranteed to loose hunting days!!

I agree that animals don't really care what you are wearing but that not the issue. The orange vest isn't bullet proof and these accidents have happened in close range where the dude literally is shooting into bushes or trees because they heard something moving through them and not actually verifying their target. The orange might help but I have a feeling its still going to happen.

Regardless of safety, my issue is more with the fact that having rifle seasons during archery defeats the purpose of archery for me. Archery is supposed to be quiet time in the woods. I realize that is subjective considering the amount of people out hunting that time of year.