Sight Tape Accuracy

[nphunter]

Curious what everyone is doing for sight tapes. I’ve always ran CBE tapes but at further distances they are not accurate for me. I have been playing with Archers Advantage and cannot build a accurate tape. 20-60 I can build exactly where my fixed pins are but it’s off at further distances. I can shoot a good group at 80 and use my caliper and measure from 20-80 and build a tape but it’s still not accurate further out. Currently my tape is accurate at 20-80 but when I get to 100 I have to set it on 94?

I really think I’m just going to go old school and use a pencil and blank tape. I feel like my own makes would for sure be more accurate and I’ll be able to mark for close ranges too that way.

I’m curious to what others do, with companies having laser engraved tapes I just can’t see how there accurate out at further distances. Maybe there close enough and people are content but i defiantly am not happy missing the mark by a foot at longer ranges.

 

[Billy Goat]

If you have pins with uneven gap something is going on with your site picture, not your arrow. From the time the arrow leaves the bow it's decelerating at a consistent rate, and gravity is pulling it down, at a consistent rate.

If you can be consistent is what matters. I usually just make my own tapes, with pen, paper, and tape over it.

 

[raptor16]

I make my own as well.

 

[big44a4]

Curious what everyone is doing for sight tapes. I’ve always ran CBE tapes but at further distances they are not accurate for me. I have been playing with Archers Advantage and cannot build a accurate tape. 20-60 I can build exactly where my fixed pins are but it’s off at further distances. I can shoot a good group at 80 and use my caliper and measure from 20-80 and build a tape but it’s still not accurate further out. Currently my tape is accurate at 20-80 but when I get to 100 I have to set it on 94?

I really think I’m just going to go old school and use a pencil and blank tape. I feel like my own makes would for sure be more accurate and I’ll be able to mark for close ranges too that way.

I’m curious to what others do, with companies having laser engraved tapes I just can’t see how there accurate out at further distances. Maybe there close enough and people are content but i defiantly am not happy missing the mark by a foot at longer ranges.

I use further marks like a 30 or 40 for first mark and then 60 or 80+ as less room for error at longer distances. I print a range of tapes and find the right one don’t just put your speed in and try using that one. It will work as a starting point but usually wont be the one. Also place the tape on the sight dialed at the longer known distance (60 or 80 in this example). Then dial down to check shorter distances and then back to verify others.

It takes trial and error for me. Usually 2-3 tapes before I find the right one. Have got them accurate to 150 yards using archers advantage.


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[CApighunter]

I take a blank tape and mark my 40/60/80 on there then match it up to the tape that fits best. Ended up with a tape 10fps slower than what my bow chrono’d at but it matches perfectly. Your draw length and essentially “sight radius” will effect your tape choice.

 

[D.Rose]

I use lancaster or cbe tapes. Set my 20yd mark and then go back to whatever my max distance that i will be shooting and shoot in that mark. Usually it will end up being 20 and 80yds or 20-100yds. Then match it to the chart that lines up with those marks.

 

[Zac]

Same here I have never had one work. I run fixed 5 pin, I think if I ever want to shoot further I'll buy the Garmin.

 

[Billy Goat]

Same here I have never had one work. I run fixed 5 pin, I think if I ever want to shoot further I'll buy the Garmin.

How will the Garmin be any different? It's using the same program everything else does to make a tape doesn't it?

I think the differences people see is from shooting lower in your riser, changes where your peep is in relation to your anchor. Meaning when you have your bow anchored at the corner of your mouth, but you need to raise your bow 3" to be looking at the pin at 120 yards, the height of your peep changes due to the string angle. So most likely you either look through the peep a little different or you drop your anchor slightly. No program can account for that.

 

[fatlander]

If you have pins with uneven gap something is going on with your site picture, not your arrow. From the time the arrow leaves the bow it's decelerating at a consistent rate, and gravity is pulling it down, at a consistent rate.

If you can be consistent is what matters. I usually just make my own tapes, with pen, paper, and tape over it.

This isn’t true. The arrow drop difference from 20-30 yards is most definitely smaller than the arrow drop from 70-80 yards.

Go outside and shoot a target at 30 yards with your 20 yard pin. Then go back to 80 yards and shoot it with a 70 yard pin. Tell me which one comes up shorter.

Deceleration =
((Initial speed^2)-(Final speed^2)) / 2(distance)

Plug speeds in for 20 and 30. Then plug the speeds in at 70 and 80. It’s decelerating at a faster rate from 70 to 80. Distance (10 yards in this example) is the only constant in the equation. It decelerates faster at further distances. Deceleration of an arrow is exponential. Not linear. It takes the arrow longer to travel the 10 yard spans at further distances, thus gravity has more time to act on the arrow over the same distance interval.


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[Billy Goat]

This isn’t true. The arrow drop difference from 20-30 yards is most definitely smaller than the arrow drop from 70-80 yards.

Go outside and shoot a target at 30 yards with your 20 yard pin. Then go back to 80 yards and shoot it with a 70 yard pin. Tell me which one comes up shorter.

Deceleration =
((Initial speed^2)-(Final speed^2)) / 2(distance)

Plug speeds in for 20 and 30. Then plug the speeds in at 70 and 80. It’s decelerating at a faster rate from 70 to 80. Distance (10 yards in this example) is the only constant in the equation. It decelerates faster at further distances. Deceleration of an arrow is exponential. Not linear.


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Of course it's different. The arrow is slowing and the drop is compounding. Did you read what I was responding to? We are saying the same thing.

From what I read of the original post he stated he had a point where his pins were closer than they had been at other distances. The pin gap isn't even pin to pin, but it relates, they slowly spread out.

I don't always type things the way I should, my mind often wanders off. In my mind we are saying the same thing. But maybe I misunderstood the original post.

Looking back now the post was edited, I'm not seeing a reference I thought I saw about pins being closer at some point. Maybe I imagined it.

 

[fatlander]

Of course it's different. The arrow is slowing and the drop is compounding. Did you read what I was responding to? We are saying the same thing.

From what I read of the original post he stated he had a point where his pins were closer than they had been at other distances. The pin gap isn't even pin to pin, but it relates, they slowly spread out.

I don't always type things the way I should, my mind often wanders off. In my mind we are saying the same thing. But maybe I misunderstood the original post.

Looking back now the post was edited, I'm not seeing a reference I thought I saw about pins being closer at some point. Maybe I imagined it.

The beginning of your post is what threw me for a loop. Having a smaller pin gap at further yardages is not possible, is what you and I are both saying. You just said it differently.

Sorry about that.

The OPs problem is that his sight window is changing when he moves the sight, which you did say.

We’re on the same page.


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[jmez]

How will the Garmin be any different? It's using the same program everything else does to make a tape doesn't it?

I think the differences people see is from shooting lower in your riser, changes where your peep is in relation to your anchor. Meaning when you have your bow anchored at the corner of your mouth, but you need to raise your bow 3" to be looking at the pin at 120 yards, the height of your peep changes due to the string angle. So most likely you either look through the peep a little different or you drop your anchor slightly. No program can account for that.

Agree. You simply can't anchor and shoot the same at 30 yards as you do at 120. Spot Hogg did an article on this a while back. It is a problem with the sliders. They recommended that you set your peep so that your sight housing is centered at the farthest distance you are comfortable shooting at an animal. Your anchor and hold will be more consistent at longer ranges than shorter this way. Changes in anchor and peep picture will have less of an effect on your POI than it will at longer ranges.

 

[Wapiti1]

Just to be sure, are you setting up the tape with field points, and then seeing a difference with broadheads? It doesn't sound like this is what you are doing, but might as well ask. Broadheads will always need a different tape at longer ranges due to their high drag. IME, they diverge at about 60 yards enough to show they aren't the same.

Jeremy

 

[Zac]

How will the Garmin be any different? It's using the same program everything else does to make a tape doesn't it?

I think the differences people see is from shooting lower in your riser, changes where your peep is in relation to your anchor. Meaning when you have your bow anchored at the corner of your mouth, but you need to raise your bow 3" to be looking at the pin at 120 yards, the height of your peep changes due to the string angle. So most likely you either look through the peep a little different or you drop your anchor slightly. No program can account for that.

I think you said it. The Garmin sight housing stays fixed and simply gives you another for. I know some of the Option sights do the same thing with the single floating pin. As far as the program Garmin uses I'm not sure if it's superior or not as far as calculations go. Would just be nice not to have to mess around with peeling sight tapes off all the time. I suppose it's kind of like having Archers Advantage built into your scope.

 

[Reburn]

Agree. You simply can't anchor and shoot the same at 30 yards as you do at 120. Spot Hogg did an article on this a while back. It is a problem with the sliders. They recommended that you set your peep so that your sight housing is centered at the farthest distance you are comfortable shooting at an animal. Your anchor and hold will be more consistent at longer ranges than shorter this way. Changes in anchor and peep picture will have less of an effect on your POI than it will at longer ranges.

I've heard it called falling out of your peep at range.

 

[nphunter]

Thanks for the feedback guys, When I was talking about the pin gap distance I'm talking 40-50 which is the same on my fixed pin sights, peep acquisition is the same because I'm not using a slider, maybe it's me, maybe the arrow slows down at a faster rate when it leaves the bow and then levels out slightly, there is still a larger gap between the two pins it's just not consistently larger if that makes sense? So my 20-30 is smaller than 30-40 but 40-50 is similar and then 50-60 is larger again. I removed the comment from the original post because it sidetracked the thread from my original intent which was to see if guys were building their own tapes or using pre-made. I do appreciate everyone trying to help though.

My concern is the sight tape not working out like the programs say past 80 yards. Maybe it's anchor or alignment related or maybe I'm dropping my bow arm, I've never had any luck on my last 3 bows with the same sight, CBE Tek Hybrid 5 pin? I figure it's time to just do a really good job making a tape then I will take measurements and make a couple of spares. Thinking about it I really don't see how a program could ever get it right unless it's just dumb luck, I'm shooting brass upfront, collars and six fletch PM2.0's on the back with wraps and a 2 deg helical. There is no way of knowing the drag on each individual's arrow, I was mainly just curious if others have given up on the prefab tapes and it sounds like some have and some have luck with the factory ones.

For hunting my sight works great and I've killed several animals with the sight how it is and have only had to dial it a couple of times for follow up shots. I've always just learned where the sight hits, for fun around the house and 3D shoots it would be nice to be able to just dial and shoot. After getting my tape dialed in I'll defiantly shoot my broadheads to see where they hit compared to my field tips.

 

[Brendan]

To make really accurate sight tapes using a program like AA or OT2 / SFAX - you need to be able to measure sight radius and peep height both at full draw with the bow in a draw board. Then - as above I'll never use 20 yards, usually 30,50 or 30,60 verifying at 80-100.

 

[nphunter]

To make really accurate sight tapes using a program like AA or OT2 / SFAX - you need to be able to measure sight radius and peep height both at full draw with the bow in a draw board. Then - as above I'll never use 20 yards, usually 30,50 or 30,60 verifying at 80-100.

Done, I made a mark at 20 and one at 80 to measure. Everything in between is good, 90 is about 12” high and 100 I have to use my 94 yard mark.



60 yards. Circle is about 5”


80 same size circle. That was my first group at 60 and 80 with the new bow which is why I snapped the picture. 80 is constantly in a 6-8” group in or around the dot. But 90 is a foot high. Maybe I’m moving my anchor After 80 but whatever I’m doing is consistent and I can nail the center at 100 only my sliders on 94.

 

[big44a4]

Done, I made a mark at 20 and one at 80 to measure. Everything in between is good, 90 is about 12” high and 100 I have to use my 94 yard mark.

View attachment 184536

60 yards. Circle is about 5”
View attachment 184537

80 same size circle. That was my first group at 60 and 80 with the new bow which is why I snapped the picture. 80 is constantly in a 6-8” group in or around the dot. But 90 is a foot high. Maybe I’m moving my anchor After 80 but whatever I’m doing is consistent and I can nail the center at 100 only my sliders on 94.

View attachment 184538

Sounds like it’s the wrong tape or having issues adjusting to anchor. I don’t think about anchor and don’t notice it changing even though it does when shooting longer. Need a faster tape. Are you shooting a multi pin sight or is it a single pin (maybe I missed this)?

Find tape where your current 80 mark matches the 80 mark and your current 94 matches 100. Or use your 60 and 100.


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[Billy Goat]

Done, I made a mark at 20 and one at 80 to measure. Everything in between is good, 90 is about 12” high and 100 I have to use my 94 yard mark.

View attachment 184536

60 yards. Circle is about 5”
View attachment 184537

80 same size circle. That was my first group at 60 and 80 with the new bow which is why I snapped the picture. 80 is constantly in a 6-8” group in or around the dot. But 90 is a foot high. Maybe I’m moving my anchor After 80 but whatever I’m doing is consistent and I can nail the center at 100 only my sliders on 94.

View attachment 184538

I'm curious, what weight arrow and what poundage, with a six fletch arrow I would think you would have more drag than what you typically see. That should be expressed in the drop that you see from 20-80 or whatever. Do you have any 3 fletch? I'd be curious for you to shoot them side by side to see if you noticed anything different one way or another with your trajectory.

Shouldn't matter, other than the difference of 9 grains or so. I'm just curious.