Site Tapes - Broadheads vs. Field Points

[ndbwhunter]

I made some changes to my setup this year (broadheads and release aid) and need to get everything tuned and sighted in again. Question is, do you get your field points and broadheads tuned before messing with the sight tape? I'm just wondering if my sight tape will change if I dial it in with field points and broadhead tune after the fact. Picture this as a brand new setup....what's your step-by-step process for sighting in? Tune broadheads before fine tuning the sight tape, or field points and sight tape before broadhead tuning?

 

[RosinBag]

Your field point tape will never match your broadhead tape unless you are shooting a very sleek mechanical. Fixed blades will work until about 40 or so yards and then they will start falling short after that.

 

[ndbwhunter]

Your field point tape will never match your broadhead tape unless you are shooting a very sleek mechanical. Fixed blades will work until about 40 or so yards and then they will start falling short after that.

So tuning broadheads beforehand would be the way to go? Tune first, then sight in?

 

[RosinBag]

That’s what I would do. Get it tuned the way you want them work on making your tape.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

i See no difference at 50-60 at all with a tuned bow it’s hard to tell at 80+ if it’s me or the heads but I’ve never had broadheads hit lower or higher than FP at that distance they all group within my ability of shooting, you’d need a hooter shooter to know for sure at long distance, unless your Gillingham

 

[Txelkhunter]

Its all about getting that bow tuned, nock perfectly behind the tip, and sometimes this can be a PIA. Once I get my broadheads impacting the same as my field tips, and they will for me out to 80yds, thats my max that I can reliably be consistent. Then I start dialing in all my yardages, 20-60 (5 pin sight), then make a mark for 20yd, and 80yd, match sight tape to those two marks and I'm good to go.

 

[RosinBag]

I don’t by that people get their broadheads and field points to hit the same from 20-80. If they hit at 80 then they are high at 20, if they hit at 20 they are low at 80. If “grouping” is he same is an 8” or 10” group at 80 then that’s possible, but that does not mean they are hitting the same point if impact. If people’s personal dispersion or their best groups are of that size at distance it is very possible to be within that size of a group.

A bow shooting roughly 280-290 FPS losses abut 2.5-3” at that distance, so their group size is roughly 3 yards vertically.

 

[Brendan]

Some other things to consider - the more momentum you're shooting, the less effect the additional drag from the broadhead will have, and the less difference you'll see. Also, the faster you run the arrow to start, the more drag you'll get. So, best case in this regard is a heavy/slow/high momentum setup.

I don't claim to be the best shot in the world, but I can hold my own and haven't noticed it either at the ranges I've tested (60 and in with fixed blades). Granted - the fixed blades I've done my testing with are Wac 'Em, Solid, Shuttle-T, none of which are huge heads in terms of drag.

 

[RosinBag]

I know I am bursting peoples shooting bubbles, but this has been tested by Hooter Shooters by many. Heavy and slow or light and fast, they both have significant more drag factors than a field point.

I will pay for the plane ticket if someone on Rokslide wants to come out and prove their ability to stack BH’s and FP’s together from 20-80 yards with their set up. And yes, it would be done also with a Hooter Shooter as I know people would just hold low or high as needed for a free trip. But if your set up fails, you give me nothing and write a post about your new findings.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

Not buying it, I’ve never measured my groups but when I get the exact spread broadheads and field points at 80 makes me think differently. Am I going to notice a few inch drop at 80 no but when I shoot 3 broadheads and 3 fieldpoints in a pie plate at 80 with mixed vertical spread not FPs high or BH low I’d say my broadheads and fieldpoints are hitting together. Can I slap arrows together at 80 no but if I can shoot the same vertical spread with broadheads and fieldpoints at that distance with no change to my tape or rest I’d say I’m good. If your saying out of a hooter shooter broadheads hit 2 inches low at 80 about .001 percent of archers would even be able to notice that drop and no change would be needed to the sight tape

 

[Austink47]

I tune as long as it takes to get my broad heads and field points grouping together out to 70 yards. Then I make a site tape based on mixed groups of field points and broad heads, then select the tape that best matches. It takes a long time and a lot of tuning. I also shoot fixed single blade broad heads, primarily selected based on how they fly.

 

[RosinBag]

I would say based on what I have seen, experimented with and tested, the majority of fixed blade broadheads are about 2 to 3 yards low at 80 if they are the same poi at 20 with the FP’s. These same bows, 2 to 3 yards is roughly 5-9” low.

I don’t know the diameter of a pie plate, I will guess about 10”. Everyone’s standards and expectations are different, but I will build a tape off my BH performance. Then if I am shooting FP’s I will just cut a couple yards at the long ones, a yard at mid range and shoot the shorter ones straight up.

 

[Brendan]

Doug is right. Simple physics, not opinion. A broadhead with more frontal surface area WILL have more drag and drop more than a field point. The same broadhead will also affect a heavier arrow less, and a faster arrow more all else equal.

My point was that I think for most people though, the drop is within their normal margin of error at the ranges they'd shoot a broadhead at. I personally have never re-sighted for a broadhead, hasn't made enough of a difference for me. I'm certainly not Gillingham, but I'd consider myself a lot better than average...

(I can't remember ever testing a fixed blade at 80, 70 probably , 60 definitely. Mainly because I've been using primarily mechanicals the last few years)

 

[Txelkhunter]

I don’t by that people get their broadheads and field points to hit the same from 20-80. If they hit at 80 then they are high at 20, if they hit at 20 they are low at 80. If “grouping” is he same is an 8” or 10” group at 80 then that’s possible, but that does not mean they are hitting the same point if impact. If people’s personal dispersion or their best groups are of that size at distance it is very possible to be within that size of a group.

A bow shooting roughly 280-290 FPS losses abut 2.5-3” at that distance, so their group size is roughly 3 yards vertically.

I don’t think anyone is saying they hit the exact hole, but with my setup, 571gr. Arrow, comes out of bow roughly 261 FPS, I’m using 125gr. Ironwill solids, AAE Max Stealth vanes, on FMJ match grade shafts, with 50gr. brass inserts, all arrows spun to insure perfect straightness. I don’t know what the size of the center of a 18-1 rhinehart is, I would guess anywhere from 3” to 3-1/2”, broadheads and fields tips will all land inside the black. Anyone can believe what they want, if you don’t like it, sorry. I only posted to help the Op with his process and wish him luck.

 

[Gumbo]

All I can say is that my field points and broadheads (Ramcats) match up pretty freaking well out to 70 (my longest pin). The broadheads are definitely less forgiving so the groups are a little larger, and if I make a poor shot they are definitely farther off than a field tip. But out of the Reign 7 I've shot the last two years the Ramcat broadheads hit pretty much in the same spot as my field tips out to 70 and I cannot discern the difference in one grouping from the other. Also, I haven't had to adjust my tune from a perfect paper tear using fletched shafts at 10 feet or so to achieve that (if I needed to broadhead tune I would have). I'm certain my groups aren't hooter shooter precise or accurate, and there almost certainly would be a difference in POI if you shot them out of a hooter shooter (especially if the bow were tuned for my shot), BUT based on my experience, the POI difference couldn't be more than a very few inches at 70 yards and would be within my normal variance for that distance. Maybe none of this is normal, maybe I'm really lucky, maybe it is a really forgiving arrow/broadhead/bow setup, or maybe I'm delusional. Whatever the case, I'm great with the results at the range and in the field.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

I don’t by that people get their broadheads and field points to hit the same from 20-80. If they hit at 80 then they are high at 20, if they hit at 20 they are low at 80. If “grouping” is he same is an 8” or 10” group at 80 then that’s possible, but that does not mean they are hitting the same point if impact. If people’s personal dispersion or their best groups are of that size at distance it is very possible to be within that size of a group.

A bow shooting roughly 280-290 FPS losses abut 2.5-3” at that distance, so their group size is roughly 3 yards vertically.

Totally agree. This has been my experience every time. My bow was shooting 282 fps last year while using a two blade fixed head. Even at 60yds I noticed I was hitting low. So, Mid summer when I switched over to shooting mostly broadheads I actually changed sight tapes to account for bow shooting a hair slower. Also, if you are hunting over 9,000ft it is a good idea to sight in a little low of center as it seems at high elevation arrows shoot high due elevation or at least take a few practice shots at trailhead to see how it it. Probably not a huge difference at 9,000ft but for those hunts say in CO highcountry above 11,000ft it can definitely make a high hit.

 

[ndbwhunter]

Thanks for all the information! I'm still trying to get my target panic under control and have been shooting a nock on silverback for the past few weeks to help eliminate the panic. Once I'm comfortable enough, I plan to start making some fine adjustments to the tune and get everything back on track.

On a side note, does anybody know if Dudley has any articles pertaining to target panic? I know he has numerous videos, but I would prefer to read a few articles if there are any good ones out there.

 

[Boxerboxer]

Thanks for all the information! I'm still trying to get my target panic under control and have been shooting a nock on silverback for the past few weeks to help eliminate the panic. Once I'm comfortable enough, I plan to start making some fine adjustments to the tune and get everything back on track.

On a side note, does anybody know if Dudley has any articles pertaining to target panic? I know he has numerous videos, but I would prefer to read a few articles if there are any good ones out there.

First Google hit for "John Dudley Target Panic" is a PDF of an old article he wrote. Good luck!

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