Solar power for the house

[tuffcity]

Anybody running a big solar power system on their house, maybe in conjunction with grid power? A local company just finished installing a 22 kW system on my roof- 59, 6'X3' panels of shiny! Should produce usable power of varying amounts for about 8 months of the year (where I'm at N of 60) . Any surplus during times of high output gets sold back into the grid.

Of course the day after it comes on line it starts to rain....

Big investment but I'm optimistic it will be worthwhile.

RC

 

[ozyclint]

What is the price per kWh to buy and to sell? That will tell you lots of things.
If the sell price is less than the buy price you will find it more beneficial to try and use your daily power as much as you can through the day when the solar is producing. Effectively saving you having to buy it at the more expensive rate rather than trying to profit from a lower selling price. The utility company then on sells that power at the higher rate anyway. This means you have built a power station that they get to make profit from with no capital or maintenance costs involved for them.

In layman's terms I think grid feed solar is a scam. Next thing you know they will change the price they buy it for and/or govt will tax any income....too many things out of your control.

If I had the water and the topography I'd have a micro pumped hydro setup. Solar system runs a pump to pump water to a reservoir at higher elevation. Water is fed down to turbine to produce electricity. The top reservoir is essentially your battery for the solar system.

Unless I had permanent running water from great height where I would not have to bother with the pumped hydro setup.

 

[Marble]

We did solar. Cost was 34k for a15kw system. I was paying around 8k per year for electricity. I pray nothing now.

 

[Rich M]

I'm sure it will pay itself off with plenty to spare.

They are installing solar fields down here - some as small as an acre, some over 100 acres. Pretty amazing that technology has finally caught up to the idea.

 

[tuffcity]

Some of the draws for me were a higher rate that the power company bought "my" electricity for vs what I paid from the grid, no cap on the amount I can sell to the grid (which will be a fair bit when we go back to 18-20+ hrs of daylight) and zero power bills when averaged over the year (plus a small, as in several $k, projected dividend at the end of the year).

ozyclint: the river infront of my place has enough flow for micro gen but the fact it also gets about 3 feet of ice in the winter might negate any advantage to that! lol

 

[ozyclint]

Yeah ice won't go through a turbine.
Your situation of being payed more for power exported to the grid that the cost of buying it from the grid is different to here. Sounds like a sound investment on those terms

 

[Trial153]

I been approached by a solar company to lease a 35 acre section of land for 24 years with a 10 year option. I been mulling over the contract and looks surprisingly promising.

 

[Roy68]

I been approached by a solar company to lease a 35 acre section of land for 24 years with a 10 year option. I been mulling over the contract and looks surprisingly promising.

I would strongly suggest if you are not a lawyer, then have a lawyer review that contract in detail; if you have not yet done so.

I have no experience with a solar electric development project. However I do with wind generator developments. We have said no to wind developers. Yet we also lease ground today (ranch use) that didn’t have a tower then but does today. The offers that I have seen old to present are not Leases. Instead they are Easements. There is a huge difference!

As far as privately owned solar goes I really like the idea and we seriously looked into it 7 years ago when we built our house. The payoff rate wasn’t there for us. We pay roughly $2200/year for our electric to include a 1700sqft house, out buildings, and power in the home pasture.

 

[muddydogs]

Some of the draws for me were a higher rate that the power company bought "my" electricity for vs what I paid from the grid, no cap on the amount I can sell to the grid (which will be a fair bit when we go back to 18-20+ hrs of daylight) and zero power bills when averaged over the year (plus a small, as in several $k, projected dividend at the end of the year).

ozyclint: the river infront of my place has enough flow for micro gen but the fact it also gets about 3 feet of ice in the winter might negate any advantage to that! lol

Thats all well and good until enough people install solar and the state starts letting the power company cut back on net metering rates, charging solar customers a monthly surcharge and higher use rates. Nevada had a big to do over this and Utah is heading for one. Basically the jist of the deal is that the solar homes aren't paying anything into the system but using the system and making money off the power company which trickles down to everyone else still on the grid so the power company charges a higher monthly service charge to solar homes and higher use rates.

 

[flyinsquirel]

^^^
Good info Muddy.

The Nevada fiasco may very well be the blueprint for what's coming for everyone. I know here in CA the power companies are trying to implement a very similar approach, they just haven't gotten it through the PUC yet. It's only a matter of time till it happens.

 

[Okhotnik]

Thats all well and good until enough people install solar and the state starts letting the power company cut back on net metering rates, charging solar customers a monthly surcharge and higher use rates. Nevada had a big to do over this and Utah is heading for one. Basically the jist of the deal is that the solar homes aren't paying anything into the system but using the system and making money off the power company which trickles down to everyone else still on the grid so the power company charges a higher monthly service charge to solar homes and higher use rates.

Without heavy govt subsidies solar doesn’t pencil out yet and someone has to pay for it.

I’ve lived off the grid now for 15 years and solar works good , if you watch your consumption during non peak hours. Living up in the PNW solar not so good about 4 months out of the year. The battery technology is improving but still very expensive and batteries last about 5 to 7 years.

 

[muddydogs]

Without heavy govt subsidies solar doesn’t pencil out yet and someone has to pay for it.

I’ve lived off the grid now for 15 years and solar works good , if you watch your consumption during non peak hours. Living up in the PNW solar not so good about 4 months out of the year. The battery technology is improving but still very expensive and batteries last about 5 to 7 years.

I agree, I've got just 200 watts on my RV and have plenty of power to do what I need to. Trouble is with what the posters are talking about is a non battery system that puts power back into the power grid which the homes turn around and use when there solar isn't producing and get paid or credited for any extra power left in the grid. Optimum way would be to cut ties completely with the grid and live off stored power but then the costs get crazy expensive for a whole home battery bank not to mention the sacrifices people will need to make to live off the power grid.

I see on the grid solar panels on a homes roof as a feel good I'm doing my part for the environment kind of deal thats costing the majority of electrical users more to make a few feel good. Not sure if states need to be as heavy handed as Nevada or even Utah talking about stopping the net metering but if your on the grid then you should have to pay something for it's use, if you don't want to pay then get off the grid.

 

[DRP]

we were just talking about this yesterday at work ( I work in the power industry). anyone entering into a contract with a PUC should have it reviewed by a competent lawyer, we have seen instances where language gets put into the contract stating the PUC can cancel the contract at anytime the agreement is not beneficial to them anymore. Basically you invest 15-20K in solar on your house and expect the Utility to pay you for the extra power you put on the grid, a year later the utility decides they dont want to pay you anymore and cancels your contract. now your stuck with a large investment on your roof that will never pay off. Not saying it will happen, but saying it CAN happen.

 

[ozyclint]

well there seems to be enough anecdotal evidence to support my suspicion that the goal posts get moved and the rules get changed too often with grid feed solar setups.
self sufficient off grid is the way to do it IMO.

 

[Mt Al]

No solar electricity, but I did put in a drain back solar hot water heater, basically pre-heats water going into the water heater. Go to builditsolar.com , go to $2K Solar Space and Hot water heater. I just did hot water, will add space heating later, way simple to build. Long story short, works excellently, did pay for the materials in a few year (with labor paying $0.00 per hour, zero benefits, built with my dad in a garage). As with all DIY projects, the first time takes forever, the second 1/10th the time. Adding heat will be quite a bit easier.

Just me, but I'd think long and hard before doing electric grid-tie where I live. I have neighbors who do and have no complaints - yet. I'd rather just use way less, pay less and be self sufficient vs. force a power company to buy my product (electricity) and expect everything to work out wonderfully. Let them be them, me be me. I'd rather stay tied to the grid (gas and electric) in case I need it, and happy to pay for it.

 

[ZMT588]

So what I'm taking away from this is
1. If you install solar at your house any excess solar power gets sold back to power company
2. power company sells that power back to the public at no costs to generate on their own?
3. If power company doesn't need your power any more they can give you the boot whenever

 

[ozyclint]

Re point 2- yes. You fork out the capital and maintenance costs. And you take what price they will buy it for. You can bet they buy it for a dollar and sell it for 2.

 

[Reburn]

what they buy it for here is less then a tenth of what they sell it for.

 

[seldomseensmith]

So I live in the SW. I also live above 7K feet.
I also live rurally which means no natural gas.
I installed solar on my property 6 years ago.
Here are my thoughts...
The higher your electric use, the more solar makes sense. If you live in town and heat with natural gas and have a gas hot water heater, the project isn’t worth your time.
This only gets worse if you live in the northern states. My brother in NY looked into solar and we were blown away at the amount of solar he needed to meet his usage.
My house is 100% solar by which I mean over a years time my solar production and usage are about equal. I’m grid tied. So some of what was said on here may be true with certain power companies but the way it works at my house is that my production and usage are measured in kilowatt hours and I either produce more than I use or vice versa. When I produce more than I use, they are banked by the kWh and when I use more than I produce I pull from that bank. It’s one for one. There is no price shuffle happening by the power company.
On top of that the power company pays me 4 cents per kWh my system produces regardless of whether I use it or not. That works out to about $30 a month they send me a check for on top of no electric bill for my entire house which is 100% electric. I have a family of 4.

I guess my point is that there are variables at play that make it right for some and not for others. Another thing to keep in mind if you look into it for yourself is the equipment. There are a wide variety of panels out there. There are efficiency and degradation curves available for all the panels. Spend time learning that and imo buy in at the top of the curve.



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[Mmcan]

I have a 12kW system in SW CO. It’s on my vacation home (and where I will retire), so I’m not there full time. I’m grid tied as well, and I haven’t had an electric bill since I flipped the switch on the panels almost 3 full years ago. I have received money back each year as well.
I like that I can be “off grid” if something happens to the normal utility function and security. It should all be paid off in about 8 years. I have a propane generator that will kick on if there’s no sun and no electricity from the utility, and I’ve looked into installing a battery back up array. But that’s not very cost effective right now anyway.

I’m glad I have the ability to power my house in the event of a failure in the utility. But it clearly fills the “want” rather than the “need”, until you need it