Stop the wolf....

[Ratbeetle]

So you're saying folks are expected to educate themselves from the information on these threads?

Hopefully the dialogue encourages people to educate themselves on topics that they normally would be ignorant of. I know there have been numerous times I've sought out additional information after reading a discussion on a controversial topic on a forum.

 

[wapitibob]

I don't think too many bother to figure out how Wolves are managed in the lower 48. If they did, they'd be asking who in Colorado is working on a management plan with the USFWS. That answer unfortunately, appears to be nobody.
Like it or not, fair or not, however you want to phrase it, unless/until Wolves are removed from federal oversight completely, they're in charge even after delisting. Colorado is going to address the management plan issue, sooner is better than later.

 

[kiddogy]

not to troll, but play devil's advocate. If the re-introduced wolves only decimated the muskrat and ground squirrel population, would everyone here still have the same concern? Should all predators be managed to zero to improve prey populations?

yes

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Kill every one you see, when you see them, and sleep like a baby. It ain't hard fellas.

 

[Mike7]

Having been a technician/data collector when younger on a couple of wildlife studies and having been a part of wildlife surveys for the gov't, I wouldn't call people like Ross "bro science".

In fact, houndsmen, trappers, and people like Ross have much more field experience and built up non-study data in their areas than virtually any researcher or biologist that you will ever run into.

A good biologist or someone developing a research protocol will always be smarter and better or more correct, if they try to take advantage of that resource and experience in the field, rather than mock it.

You don't learn anything about what is actually going on in the field, by staying in an echo chamber of environmentalists in a white tower at some university. Why people blindly follow some of these pseudoscientists is beyond me.

 

[UserName529]

As I mentioned in a different thread I plan to send support to F4WM but I really want to make more of an effort to hunt wolves and not hope I find myself in the right situation to put one down.

 

[Ross]

If you want to find out about how to kill wolves the stucknrut crew have it figured out and they also see the troubles north Idaho elk are having these guys are born hunters period likely another wolf kill on a stud bull from north Idaho wolves were feeding on this sadly happens much more than we know and are the bulls we cherish to pursue so often remember wolves only eat the sick and old

 

[elkstabber]

So you're saying folks are expected to educate themselves from the information on these threads?

Yes, no doubt. Ryan posted this to let people know that they can help by going to stopthewolf.com. He posted the link in the very first post. Ryan is asking for us to take action.

Also, many hunters here live outside of the Rocky Mountain states and we're only fed the lies where we live. One of the purposes of this thread is to educate these people so that they can realize how important it is that they stand with and support the hunters of Colorado.

All of the nation's elk hunters (no matter where they live) will lose if wolves are re-introduced and then protected in Colorado. This is critical because Colorado has more elk than any other state. If Colorado's elk herd gets reduced than we elk hunters will all feel the squeeze as hunters will put even more pressure on other states.

 

[dr.mooseknuckles]

Shoot, shovel, shut up.

It's a very easy principle. Some deer dogs illegally run on my family's property have experienced such in Alabama.

 

[87TT]

There is no closed wolf season on private land where I live because of the problem. Personally, that goes for anywhere...…....………………...….allegedly.

 

[Okhotnik]

I don't think too many bother to figure out how Wolves are managed in the lower 48. If they did, they'd be asking who in Colorado is working on a management plan with the USFWS. That answer unfortunately, appears to be nobody.
Like it or not, fair or not, however you want to phrase it, unless/until Wolves are removed from federal oversight completely, they're in charge even after delisting. Colorado is going to address the management plan issue, sooner is better than later.

Until the tree Nazis file a lawsuit to shut down management which they have done in Minnesota Wisconsin and Michigan so the management plan is worthless

 

[Beendare]

I think most here would agree....we aren't trying to wipe wolves from the planet.....just to keep them out of ecosystems in close proximity with humans and susceptible ungulate populations.

Facts; I would love to see the actual numbers of what that wolf intro cost ID,MT and WY....My bet is it's staggering.

Heck the lawsuits alone over that 15 year [or so] period- including all of the court costs paid by taxpayers HAS TO BE A HORRENDOUS NUMBER.

Too bad that^ massive sucking sound of all that $$$$$$$$ couldn't have gone towards habitat and improvements- a win win for everyone.

.....

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

I think most here would agree....we aren't trying to wipe wolves from the planet.....just to keep them out of ecosystems in close proximity with humans and susceptible ungulate populations.

So where exactly would that be? Haven't read a single post of an area in the lower 48 where folks are appreciating the presence of wolves. Ex. Northern ID isn't exactly a population hub of the north, yet folks want the wolf gone! You could keep packs contained to wilderness areas, but it would be a challenge and probably require all animal collared to keep track once the pack splits up. But yes, that's a bit different than re-introduction.

I agree with the costs, if a proper cost benefit analysis was done, these projects probably wouldn't get off the ground. Most biologist will say healthy wildlife populations need three things: habitat, habitat, and habitat.

 

[87TT]

There is no place in the lower 48 for wolves, period.

 

[ndbuck09]

So where exactly would that be? Haven't read a single post of an area in the lower 48 where folks are appreciating the presence of wolves. Ex. Northern ID isn't exactly a population hub of the north, yet folks want the wolf gone! You could keep packs contained to wilderness areas, but it would be a challenge and probably require all animal collared to keep track once the pack splits up. But yes, that's a bit different than re-introduction.

I agree with the costs, if a proper cost benefit analysis was done, these projects probably wouldn't get off the ground. Most biologist will say healthy wildlife populations need three things: habitat, habitat, and habitat.

They should be in Griffith Park in LA, Forest Park in Portland, Discovery Park in Seattle, Golden Gate Park in San Francisco....you get the drift.

 

[Beendare]

So where exactly would that be?

Plenty of remote areas in NA........its insanity installing wolves within 50 miles of a high population density area in Colorado. Any Biologist type arguing for that is either taking $$ from wolf loving orgs....or so totally enamored with wolves they can't see the forest through the trees. This proposal is anti hunting for sure.

I agree with the costs, if a proper cost benefit analysis was done, these projects probably wouldn't get off the ground.

Ahhh, you assume clear unbiased common sense thinking was used to determine the reintroduction- Grin. We now know this was seriously lacking. ...or at least overpowered by outside forces.

We have members here that helped spearhead the wolf introduction...and they claim [in previous wolf threads] to have analyzed the reintroduction thoroughly.

Anyone doing a small amount of research can see these folks got way over their skis. Whether its from their arrogance, a partiality towards wolves...or just plain lack of critical thinking skills- doesn't matter, we are stuck now. They missed a lot of unintended consequences.

The point is; NOW WE KNOW....so are we going to continue to make the same mistakes playing God with these species?

....

 

[Newtosavage]

The point is; NOW WE KNOW....so are we going to continue to make the same mistakes playing God with these species?

....

We started "playing God" the time the first wolf was shot.

 

[realunlucky]

We started "playing God" the time the first wolf was shot.

So sportsman still have to fund the North American conversation model but don't get a voice at the table on how it should be ran?

Damn trolled back in

 

[Newtosavage]

So sportsman still have to fund the North American conversation model but don't get a voice at the table on how it should be ran?

Damn trolled back in

Just a reply to the "playing God" comment. That's all.

the NA Conservation Model was built on scientific facts, of which there are precious few available when it comes to large predators. And even if there were, politics would trump the facts anyway.

 

[Beendare]

So many are fooled by this "Balance of Nature" type argument....which is a STEAMING PILE of horse puckey.

Right from the Horses mouth; A rep for the group trying to install wolves in CO, the RMWAF, quoted;


“It's the missing voice that we have, it's the missing predator that we have,” Darlene Kobobel with the Colorado Wolf and Wildlife Center said, “we have to have that brought back just to restore that balance.”

Kobobel is also one of the organizers for a group trying to get the question on the ballot. She and proponents of the measure say it comes down to biology and adding an apex predator to Colorado.

The initial plan would be to introduce 20-30 gray wolves on the Western Slope.

“Right now, we’re out of balance, right now we have so many deer that it is out of control. Not that wolves would come into towns or cities but it’s still the fact that because of that, it’s just simple math,” said Kobobel.

Article KOAA NEWS ARTICLE

"WE NEED WOLVES to Restore Balance?" Where have we heard that crap before.....?

The hunting solution, a net positive;
Special 3 day Archery hunts in RNP....$600/ per hunter. Low income folks get preference and discounted tag.

Then when the bow guys don't kill enough animals...open it up to a 2 day special rifle hunts.

$300k goes to the park/ COFG....20% goes to admin....families get the meat, park restores "Balance" a win win

......