The morality of poaching

Fordguy

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I haven't read every comment in this thread, but many states/counties have a sign up/notification sheet for salvage of roadkill deer or other large game animals. Often game wardens and conservation officers have lists of families who will take donated game. I used to crop damage hunt (for deer) in an orchard. Deer removal took place after hunting seasons jan-feb and later in summer August/Sept. Antlerless deer only, there was roughly 20,000 in damage to trees annually. We had a list of families who signed up to take the deer when shot. When we would call them frequently they would turn it down.

There are usually better options than poaching. Pride is not an excuse. I can't tell you how many roadkill deer I salvaged when I was a teen, but it was a bunch. We were thrilled to have them. My step dad was taking care of a family of 6 on 20k a year. When we found a freshly hit deer, a call to the county police dept would result in a salvage tag. If they had an officer close by he would drop it off at the site, otherwise I or my parents would.drive down to the Dept with the deer in the truck and pick up the tag. All legal.
 

Coldtrail

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I grew up in, and was a warden in some of, if not the most economically depressed areas of northern WI. My experience has been the same as MT warden, people that NEED to poach to survive don't really exist, and in the rare case a family does find themselves in that situation it's likely one year/season & they figure out an alternative going forward....that's what being proud is about, fixing your situation, not relishing in it & accepting it as your lifestyle.

What I did see is plenty of people saying they needed to feed their family while collecting a govt check of some kind, road hunting mid week at $3 a gallon for gas with a case of beer & $6 jumbo bag of chips on the truck seat, or fishing under similar circumstances from an ice shack full of beer cans and cigarette smoke and weed.

I was always amazed at the amount of people that were in good enough shape to subsistence hunt/fish daily, but had bodies just too worn out to actually work anywhere.
 
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I grew up in, and was a warden in some of, if not the most economically depressed areas of northern WI. My experience has been the same as MT warden, people that NEED to poach to survive don't really exist, and in the rare case a family does find themselves in that situation it's likely one year/season & they figure out an alternative going forward....that's what being proud is about, fixing your situation, not relishing in it & accepting it as your lifestyle.

What I did see is plenty of people saying they needed to feed their family while collecting a govt check of some kind, road hunting mid week at $3 a gallon for gas with a case of beer & $6 jumbo bag of chips on the truck seat, or fishing under similar circumstances from an ice shack full of beer cans and cigarette smoke and weed.

I was always amazed at the amount of people that were in good enough shape to subsistence hunt/fish daily, but had bodies just too worn out to actually work anywhere.
What part of Wisconsin sounds like butternut-glidden-park falls
 
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Several of my hunting buddies are cops. Through their connections, several of the municipalities around where I work call us when there’s a deer that’s been hit by a car or hung up on a fence. I kind of think of it as being a “meat janitor”. If it’s in good condition, I think it’s a shame to have it go into a landfill. There have been years that I’ve “harvested” or salvaged eight or nine deer.

The kids help me package and label. Their labels have been heartwarming with any of my kills. Their labels and artistic additions to packages of salvaged venison F’n crack me up.

Anyone up for some Prius Buck Fajitas?

I’m not saying that there are no people that can end up in dire circumstances or that everybody has the same access to salvage meat.

I just suspect that the percentage of people who are illegally killing deer because they have no other option is pretty darn small.
 

Zappaman

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Can't speak to other states, but in Montana the folks pinched for feeding their family is almost nil. This is based on twenty four years of enforcing wildlife laws.

For one, if an individual or family is down on their luck, there are a myriad of programs (both private and public) to help folks out. Two, you can do pretty well on putting meat in the freezer legally with a little work (lots of extra doe tags, extended seasons, etc).

I did have one rather memorable case of an individual that actually was tipping over deer to feed his family. I told him I'd make him a deal, he'd quit poaching and I would give him game that we would confiscate throughout the season (all of our confiscated game meat was donated with a receipt to the individual receiving it). I lived up to my end of the bargain and I never had a problem with gentleman again (he did eventually moved out of state).
You sir are my kind of guy! You took a problem and offered a solution that solved the problem... without making it a criminal problem (in the end). Elegant in it's simplicity! I am very happy to hear the world still has "common sense" folks like you figuring out how to work with what the world gives them... please don't retire!!!
 

gabenzeke

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I think it's a slippery slope. So in cases maybe it is justified, but there's no way we could ever apply that equally. So I say ticket poachers and throw the book at them.

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Zappaman

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The cost of prosecuting petty crime is still very high... if a warden (or "dead road meat market") policy can "tame" the problem... I'm all for it over the cost of a judge and jury for the day (or more).

Yes... throw the book at them- slap them in the face with it! BUT... then offer them something they can (gratefully) accept and then we're not prosecuting the SAME offenders again and again (adding more-and-more to the cost of it all in our legal system).

But if they are "horn" hunting and hanging racks in the trees out front bragging about breaking the law-- toss em' in jail and throw away the key!
 

mtwarden

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WoodDuck

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This is not a legal explanation.

When you pull the trigger or release the arrow, if your main focus is eating the animal on the receiving end, I cannot fault you.

This is the essence and most pure form of hunting; for the desire for meat.

I choose to follow the game laws set by my state, but if you find yourself in a position where you can’t sustain your family and need to harvest a game animal out of season, I will not hold anything against you.

On the other hand, if you violate game laws with the intent of harvesting a trophy animal, you are a POS and I hope you lose every single one of your rights.
 

Coldtrail

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Oh jeez now your talking Loretta draper winter... even worse lol 😆
No matter the profession, a guy needs to make sure he's in an area with ample job security LoL! Seriously I really just liked those areas, they are unique....but mostly good folks. I'll take working those areas over the wealthy lake dwellers any day of the week.

I recall one person that truly "needed" to live from the land, she was in her 70's in a house with no electricity, and no car. I suspected she was taking the occasional deer and talked to her about it. Made arrangements to get her a couple of my confiscated deer each year which she GREATLY appreciated. I'd show up and she would have me bring them right into her kitchen where she would process them immediately. Other than that I gave a few one time deer to a few families I knew needed them in the moment, but they got back on their feet after so it was never a habit.
 

2531usmc

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I went to college in West Virginia in the late 70s and early 80s. It was very common for kids from the poorer southern part of the state to feed themselves with venison. Not saying right or wrong....
 

BLJ

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This is not a legal explanation.

When you pull the trigger or release the arrow, if your main focus is eating the animal on the receiving end, I cannot fault you.

This is the essence and most pure form of hunting; for the desire for meat.

I choose to follow the game laws set by my state, but if you find yourself in a position where you can’t sustain your family and need to harvest a game animal out of season, I will not hold anything against you.

On the other hand, if you violate game laws with the intent of harvesting a trophy animal, you are a POS and I hope you lose every single one of your rights.
Yes.
 
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I am reluctant to even bring this up but ---. I have always looked at poaching as an activity done purposely outside of the normal season restraints. How about those situations where things just happen?

You spot a herd of elk walking through a dense jungle. A bull following 5 cows. The exposure is very brief so you can observe or shoot. You watch them through 4 openings and then you find a hole for a shot and wait. You count the elk passing through and you shoot the sixth one. When you get there it's a cow.

The choices are 1) leave it, 2) ride out 5 miles to find a warden and turn yourself in, 3) or pack it out and eat your mistake. Oh -- I forgot the more common option -- high grade it for the best cuts and leave the rest. ( Personally I find the later almost as disgusting as choice 1. ) I have to admit over 50 years I have eaten a couple of my mistakes. Legal? No. Ethical? A question. Poaching? Not in my world.

Sometimes life isn't as simple as it seems.
 

Traveler

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I am reluctant to even bring this up but ---. I have always looked at poaching as an activity done purposely outside of the normal season restraints. How about those situations where things just happen?

You spot a herd of elk walking through a dense jungle. A bull following 5 cows. The exposure is very brief so you can observe or shoot. You watch them through 4 openings and then you find a hole for a shot and wait. You count the elk passing through and you shoot the sixth one. When you get there it's a cow.

The choices are 1) leave it, 2) ride out 5 miles to find a warden and turn yourself in, 3) or pack it out and eat your mistake. Oh -- I forgot the more common option -- high grade it for the best cuts and leave the rest. ( Personally I find the later almost as disgusting as choice 1. ) I have to admit over 50 years I have eaten a couple of my mistakes. Legal? No. Ethical? A question. Poaching? Not in my world.

Sometimes life isn't as simple as it seems.
This is quite the red herring. If one didn’t know if it was a cow or bull before they shot, it is not correctly identifying a target and is just irresponsible on top of illegal…that seems pretty simple. Sure, once something comes s dead you have a dilemma but it was an entirely avoidable situation.
 

mtwarden

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^ get a inReach and then you don't have to ride out five miles to call the warden

option 2 is the safest bet :D
 

Coldtrail

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"be sure of your target and what is beyond"

By reporting it to the warden, you are not only taking responsibility for your actions, but likely allowing that elk to go to someone that needs it which is kind of the point of this whole thread.
 

2ski

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Pride....what a crock. So people are in effect saying they aren't man enough to go ask for help so they'll just break the law in secret? I respect someone so much more that can swallow their pride and ask for help. Asking for help is not a weakness. Not asking for help is a weakness. I'm not talking about the 60's and 70's what have you. Times were differnet. Now is what I'm talking.

He had too much pride so he broke into his neighbors house and stole food. But its okay. Pride is a good reason.

What if I said the mom should've sold herself for a little food money. I mean get on her knees to feed the family vs poaching a deer. 2 consenting parties. Did everyone consent to having the public's deer stolen? Why aren't we suggesting that? I'm not suggesting that. Just using that to point out flawed logic.

I'm not too irritated about someone shooting for sustenance here and there. I want to be clear. But the pride reasoning is such bs. That's just weak minded. That's why Juwan Howard threw a pinch today. Pride. I think you all are getting your words mixed up. It's not too much pride. It's too much fear. Fear of what others may think of you. Fear prevents you from asking for help. Pride in doing what you can to feed your family motivates you to ask for help.
 

2ski

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"be sure of your target and what is beyond"

By reporting it to the warden, you are not only taking responsibility for your actions, but likely allowing that elk to go to someone that needs it which is kind of the point of this whole thread.
Exactly. Self report. Take the small fine and move on knowing your mistake helped feed a hungry family. Woah. One of those assistance programs for people with enough pride to ask.
 
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