Truss issue on a new building, would like some insight.

[Tod osier]

I'm guessing the builder ordered trusses from a manufacturer and is kind of stuck with what shows up. As others have said, quality isn't what it used to be.

I don't think you can mess with an engineered truss, but they could have notched the purlin where it hit the crown of the truss to drop it down some and minimize what you see. I think. I don't do pole buildings. If that's against the rules, there really isn't much else that could be done, short of getting more replacement trusses.

Agree, but they build their own trusses in house, so it is on them.

 

[Tod osier]

Damn. I hate to say it I’ve never seen trusses that bad on either set and honestly don’t look too hard at them. Just a quick eyeball and will pull a string line and plane in place if they look bad. The last set I did (my personal house) I did have to snap a line a handful of of crowned trusses and plane to the crown but it was sheeted so it washed out nicely. Purlins and steel it would have been a different story.

Edit to add: I don’t think that planing trusses is legal where code is enforced. You can shim to the crown I guess.

The metal really shows the crown, I don’t know how much you would see with sheathing and a good thick asphalt shingle. It is their business, so my expectation the metal looks good. We got the best crew in the region and the foreman had obviously never seen a truss/roof like that. He stopped work on the roof for a day for his supervisor to give advice. They way they work, they can’t do something like shim the purlins, if the trusses are bad, they just have to move on.

 

[ben h]

Here's a link to the ANSI TPI(Truss Plate Institute)-1/2014 design standards if you care to see the details, 2022 is the latest, but it's $80 and probably not much different. ANSI TPI-1. Chapter 3 deals with quality, and they basically say it's up to the MFG for things like this unless there's a different set of acceptance criteria. It sounds like you didn't do any plans, or the builder did them so there probably isn't anything there to help you. 5/8-3/4" doesn't sound too bad for 24', but that looks pretty pronounced. How does the building look on the whole, at 20-30' and not at a perfect angle to see the imperfections? I'd still look into the accredidation of the truss MFG who you say is the builder, but you can't sell engineered products without that or an engineer who designed them. Sort of like you can't buy a glu-lam, steel I-beam, or engineered truss that the builder's guys just whipped up. What was submitted for permits? There's usually a hundred page+ calc package that should have some criteria in it. The report will probabbly be output from MiTek (Berkshire Hathaway company) or Simpson Strong-Tie proprietary software and have some of their standards, not just the builder or whatever their sales team tells you.

 

[5811]

The metal really shows the crown, I don’t know how much you would see with sheathing and a good thick asphalt shingle. It is their business, so my expectation the metal looks good. We got the best crew in the region and the foreman had obviously never seen a truss/roof like that. He stopped work on the roof for a day for his supervisor to give advice. They way they work, they can’t do something like shim the purlins, if the trusses are bad, they just have to move on.

I dont think you would see that in shingles at all.

I would see if they could show you a few other buildings they have put up. If they all look better than yours, then you have a good gripe. If they all look like yours or worse, you might be asking too much of them.

 

[ThorM465]

I don't care what the acceptable tolerances are on the truss. What is the acceptable bend radius of the corrugated metal? The metal is obviously the limiting factor in this area of the build, so it's the metal's acceptable tolerances that matter. I'd call a metal manufacturer and ask them what the acceptable tolerances of the substrate must be for them to warranty their metal. Actually, I'd probably start with Grok and then call a metal manufacturer to validate.

 

[Tod osier]

Here's a link to the ANSI TPI(Truss Plate Institute)-1/2014 design standards if you care to see the details, 2022 is the latest, but it's $80 and probably not much different. ANSI TPI-1. Chapter 3 deals with quality, and they basically say it's up to the MFG for things like this unless there's a different set of acceptance criteria. It sounds like you didn't do any plans, or the builder did them so there probably isn't anything there to help you. 5/8-3/4" doesn't sound too bad for 24', but that looks pretty pronounced. How does the building look on the whole, at 20-30' and not at a perfect angle to see the imperfections? I'd still look into the accredidation of the truss MFG who you say is the builder, but you can't sell engineered products without that or an engineer who designed them. Sort of like you can't buy a glu-lam, steel I-beam, or engineered truss that the builder's guys just whipped up. What was submitted for permits? There's usually a hundred page+ calc package that should have some criteria in it. The report will probabbly be output from MiTek (Berkshire Hathaway company) or Simpson Strong-Tie proprietary software and have some of their standards, not just the builder or whatever their sales team tells you.

THANKS! Unfortunately, I know quite a few of the answers to those questions. In my flurry of communications on Friday, I did find and reference the ANSI/TPI-1, so I'm on track there. The plans that we have for the building note a truss model, but I looked it up and could not find the specifics online (the sales guy has them on his phone and showed me). From what I was told, the engineering was simpson and the trusses have a 1/2" camber/crown in the top chord. I and the sales guy (who is the point of contact) and the crew were under the impression that some of that 1/2" (really 3/4") would settle out when installed (obviously this was wrong). The trusses on the ground and when installed and carrying the roof metal appear to have a very similar camber/crown (they did not settle out any). The crown/camber is 5/8-7/8 on those I measured, but most are 3/4". This would not be so noticeable if the gable end trusses were not straight (zero camber) and if it wasn't a metal roof. Is it wrong to think that the trusses would "settle" some and alleviate some of the issue? I raised the issue to the sales guy that if they "settled" that would cause the walls to flare out equal to the amount that they settled.

The trusses are stamped by a an outside quality assurance/inspection company, I was going to talk to them on Monday (if they will talk to me) about the fact: 1) the kiln dried SYP obviously sat wet for a long time to grow mold, 2) the surface mold/mildew and fungal mycelium on the wood 3) the small, but clear signs of rot in the truss members, and 4) the fact that some truss plates are gapping. Does this make sense? I don't see how I could ever sell the building with trusses that have mildew to the extent in the photo, clear fungal growth on the surface and rot.

There is a building permit, but our county does not follow any building code.

 

[Tod osier]

I dont think you would see that in shingles at all.

I would see if they could show you a few other buildings they have put up. If they all look better than yours, then you have a good gripe. If they all look like yours or worse, you might be asking too much of them.

Agree on shingles.

The sales guy said that he looked at multiple 48' buildings and none showed the problem, he suggested that the problem will settle out with time (that was his explanation why it isnt' present in others). I own another one of these buildings by them (albeit a 30' truss) and the roof is flat. The crew had never seen this before. This is a very visible crown.

 

[5811]

Agree on shingles.

The sales guy said that he looked at multiple 48' buildings and none showed the problem, he suggested that the problem will settle out with time (that was his explanation why it isnt' present in others). I own another one of these buildings by them (albeit a 30' truss) and the roof is flat. The crew had never seen this before. This is a very visible crown.

If they suggest it will settle out, ask them if that means the flat trusses will slump down to concave.

If you have multiple employees of the company saying your building is not to their usual quality, and they make their own trusses, I think you are right to hold their feet to the fire a bit. Im stunned they sent more crowned, crappy looking trusses out to replace your crowned trusses. To spend all that money and time re-doing so much of the building only to put trusses in that dont meet spec is questionable at best.

 

[Reburn]

he suggested that the problem will settle out with time (that was his explanation why it isnt' present in others)

This is likely BS to kick the can down the road.

 

[TaperPin]

Agree on shingles.

The sales guy said that he looked at multiple 48' buildings and none showed the problem, he suggested that the problem will settle out with time (that was his explanation why it isnt' present in others). I own another one of these buildings by them (albeit a 30' truss) and the roof is flat. The crew had never seen this before. This is a very visible crown.

Of course the sales guy is full of crap - trusses aren’t going to change shape hardly at all over decades, or flat roofs would eventually sag, which they don’t.

If you have a chance to check out the rack trusses are assembled on it will erase any doubt their trusses were never made properly. The rack is set up so at every intersection there is no way for the top cord to move out of alignment, bow up or down. Diagonals were cut too long and rather than recut them, they would have had to purposely remove the alignment pin at that intersection and bow the top cord up. The only other possible set up that would make a consistent bulge is the top cord alignment pins were not set to a straight line, but rather were matched to a curved 2x (some smart guy thinking he knows a faster way to set pins than how he was taught). Either situation is completely on the guys working the trusses that day.

 

[Chris in TN]

This is likely BS to kick the can down the road.

I've learned that in dealing with construction people, once the justification starts (oh, that'll settle out) you might as well play hardball. I've had to push back on people several times, and there's nothing fun about it, you feel like the bad guy even if it's 100% their fault, but you have to do it or they'll quite happily walk away and never look back and you'll be mad about it as long as you own the barn.

Also, that isn't meant to be a slight towards 'construction people'. Pretty much any profession has people that will try to talk you into overlooking a flaw if it saves them having to fix it correctly.

 

[Reburn]

Pretty much any person will try to talk you into overlooking a flaw if it saves them having to do more work.

FIFY

What he has going on with his trusses is pretty standard. It just looks worse then it is because of the metal roof. However the contractor knew that they were contracted to put a metal roof on from the get go and they should have planned for it.

 

[Old and gray]

Why weren’t you checking for straightness before the new trusses went up?

 

[Tod osier]

Why weren’t you checking for straightness before the new trusses went up?

I wanted to go to the plant to make the trusses myself, but wasn't able to do so.

I did put a string and rule on them with the foreman if you missed that detail. He made several calls and was told do go ahead.

 

[pacoalcracker]

Their screw up the first time since they made faulty trusses and you were unaware. Shame on them. However, you already knew of the truss issue and did check these trusses the second time around when they arrived to ensure they were built to your satisfaction before they were put up and you stated you were ok with installing them because someone at the company told the foreman to go ahead with installing them? That was your opportunity right there to decide not to accept them. However, you did and still have a major problem. Are you surprised that there is still an issue? I highly doubt you will get any further cooperation in solving this problem. That window was closed when you accepted those trusses the second time. That roof is eventually going to leak at the seams so you might want to caulk them up now.

 

[Tod osier]

Their screw up the first time since they made faulty trusses and you were unaware. Shame on them. However, you already knew of the truss issue and did check these trusses the second time around when they arrived to ensure they were built to your satisfaction before they were put up and you stated you were ok with installing them because someone at the company told the foreman to go ahead with installing them? That was your opportunity right there to decide not to accept them. However, you did and still have a major problem. Are you surprised that there is still an issue? I highly doubt you will get any further cooperation in solving this problem. That window was closed when you accepted those trusses the second time. That roof is eventually going to leak at the seams so you might want to caulk them up now.

Perhaps in hindsight, but the trusses were better than the first batch as far as the crown and near the production spec I was told of and I (and apparently everyone else involved that I talked to) was under the impression that the crown/camber was in there to insure that when installed and put under a load that they would look right (crown would settle when they were placed - settle when installed and loaded with materials, not eventually settle). I don't know that it is my responsibility to monitor the work beyond what I did. The final product is what I'm paying for. I also do not think at the time I was able to fully believe that they could send bad trusses again given the extent of the discussions that had been had.

 

[westernarcher]

At this point in construction,I would figure out a way to prop the one truss in question. Remove all gussets on the side that is crowned. Lower everything into proper plane and reinstall plywood gussets. Might have to trim a couple web ends. Probably take one 3-4 hrs.

 

[Tod osier]

At this point in construction,I would figure out a way to prop the one truss in question. Remove all gussets on the side that is crowned. Lower everything into proper plane and reinstall plywood gussets. Might have to trim a couple web ends. Probably take one 3-4 hrs.

I was thinking if I needed to do it, I could cut out of the webs and then sister them, but we are a long way from there, plus it would void the warranty. Part of the reason for me that some fix in place wasn't discussed was that the building was so horribly constructed the first time and that they needed to get about half way there anyway to fix the cosmetic issues. At this point, I'd be open to a solution like that if they could get a solution from an engineer.

It is an issue on all of the raised chord trusses in the building (gable end trusses are not raised chord and are supported along their length and the top chord is nice and straight).

 

[Reburn]

That window was closed when you accepted those trusses the second time.

Thats not how turnkey construction works.

He is paying for a turnkey building to specs. Doesnt matter if he said the sky is purple.

 

[Old and gray]

I wanted to go to the plant to make the trusses myself, but wasn't able to do so.

I did put a string and rule on them with the foreman if you missed that detail. He made several calls and was told do go ahead.