Walk me thru proper load development...

[roymunson]

I'm YT, Rokslide, and Internet taught on my reloading, and Ive done ok for hunting purposes, but have never found one of those rounds that shoots 1/2 MOA every time. Can someone walk me thru it? I'm in the process of finding a load for elk for this fall and enjoy the tinkering...

What I've done so far.
300 WSM, Winchester Model 70

1. Select a bullet I want to use (Nosler Partition 165)
2. Select a powder (H4350, H4831, IMR 4350)
3. Prep cases and build 5 rounds of a specific powder (H4350) at the low end of the charge scale, and in intervals up to the higher end. (64 gr, 65 gr, 66 gr, etc)
4. Load them to an OAL suggested in the Nosler book. (2.815")
5. Go shoot those 5 rounds at 100 yards and see what groups best
6. If I find a charge that groups better than the others, mess with the seating depths to find a node.

My issue is that off a bench, I'd like to see something less than 1 MOA. My rifle's capable, I think.

So when I'm building rounds with different charges, I know seating depth can affect accuracy, should I be chasing a velocity with those charges and forget accuracy? Once I get a velocity I like, then mess with seating depth for accuracy?

I've read Formidulous' thread about this and I am missing on what to do when I'm not happy with accuracy.

I know there are really accurate rounds out there, but I've never been lucky enough to get those groups where bullet holes touch. I can get it pretty easily into the 1-2 MOA range. If I'm just hunting, is that pretty standard and leave it alone? Or am I looking for a unicorn?

 

[Vern400]

You're shooting partitions. That is one of the best terminal performance bullets ever made. That being said, it might not be one of the most accurate bullets ever made. I was not able to group them under 1 inch in my 308. But I haven't tried them with my newest Precision powder.

You have the basic ideas down. But in all honesty you don't tell your rifle what it's going to eat. It tells you what it wants. If you have anybody that reload, or people at the range see if they'll trade with you on a small batch of bullets.

I recently was reloading for a rifle and beating my head getting crappy results. I loaded five different bullets on the same powder charge and got five shot groups from 1.75 in to 0.6 in.
A few people didn't like it, I guess because it didn't meet their procedural expectation.

Do a little research and find out what bullets tend to shoot good out of that rifle, and try one of those. Sirroccos? In all honesty your marksmanship is more important than the rifle's accuracy once you get close to one MOA. I work up loads and shoot off a bench pretty often. Then, crap! I shoot 1 out of 3 deer left-handed hanging out of a rickety deer stand.

I don't know any favorite loads for your rifle.
With a 308, if it won't shoot a 150 Sierra game king, a 168 match King, or a Nosler ballistic tip of either weight, sitting on about 45 grains of Varget....
My experience is that gun don't ever shoot. I'm willing to give it a go but quite honestly almost any bolt 308 will shoot those combos extremely well.

 

[rideold]

Painless load development (mine)

Are people trimming cases when they get longer, or are y’all ditching the brass before that happens? if you need to trim you need to trim, excessive case lenght is a safety issue. I've had situations where cases needed trimmed basically every firing, and others where trimming was not necessary...

rokslide.com

 

[ARK_Ginger]

I've read Formidulous' thread about this and I am missing on what to do when I'm not happy with accuracy.

I know there are really accurate rounds out there, but I've never been lucky enough to get those groups where bullet holes touch. I can get it pretty easily into the 1-2 MOA range. If I'm just hunting, is that pretty standard and leave it alone? Or am I looking for a unicorn?

I believe the solution is to rebarrel if you're unwilling to change bullets. That is after you've tried other powder combos.

1/2 MOA accuracy is not as common as the internet will have you believe as well. 1.5 MOA can get you within the vital zone of a big game animal way out there.

 

[HighUintas]

I highly recommend NOT chasing a load that is 1/2moa. You'll most likely spin your tires in the mud wayyy too much because it's generally not repeatable unless you've got a certain rifle setup, like a heavy bench or f class gun.

If you find a load that is 1-1.5moa for 10+ round group (or a composite made up of 10+ rounds), run with it and start practicing.

You'll save time and money on components and have more field practice time and money. Gaining 0.5moa accuracy by fiddling constantly with a load is much less conducive to being able to hit your target at long range than getting plenty of practice.

I think a lot of people would agree with that. I know I improved a LOT when I quit screwing with loads at the range and started practicing more in the field with a good enough (1-1.5moa) load

 

[TaperPin]

I agree with the others - a 1/2 moa factory rifle is rare - maybe one in 20. I must have struggled to get a factory rifle of any kind to shoot even 3/4 moa for almost 10 years - getting a custom barrel is the easiest route.

- You have to be able to shoot consistently.
- The scope has to be consistent.
- The rifle has to be shootable - a lighter trigger, good targets, and proper sand bags help.
- The barrel has to be capable.
- Finally, your loads can be experimented with to find what it likes.

The main three factors of the gun that effect going from 1 moa to 1/2 moa are the bullet, powder and barrel. Primers, dies, fancy scale, fancy measuring, chronograph, brass, flash hole and primer pocket uniforming, neck reaming, voodoo chicken bones, tarot cards, etc won’t have as much of an impact as the main three.

My 1/2 moa 7 mag shot partitions, but not all guns do - an old .338 only shot 210 gr partitions well and the 250 groups were always 50% larger. A couple of 243’s shot 100 gr partitions as good as any bullet ever fired out of them.

If you had three powders with three near max loads, loading three cartridges at max length, then .003” less, .006” less. .012” less .015” less and .018” less, you’re up to almost 60 rounds. Three shot groups are just fine for excluding poorly shooting loads - more rounds will never shrink a group. If the first two bullets in a group are over 1/2 moa there’s no reason to fire the third - keep reminding yourself more rounds will never shrink a group. Reshoot the groups that look good so you have a better sample and exclude those that don’t shoot. If nothing shoots 1/2 moa, nothing will fix that and you need a better barrel or try another bullet.

The complete load process for a good barrel can be three shots at max length and a starting powder charge, then 1/4 way to max, 1/2 way to max and max. 12 shots. Done. That barrel might have shot .4s or .3s, but all I wanted was 1/2 moa so I was done. Every group out of that rifle until it was shot out was consistently in the same place and nicely spaced 1/2 moa or less - firing 10 shot groups wouldn’t have helped provide more information.

 

[BigDawgWill44]

Are you using a chronograph for every shot?


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[Mulyhuntr]

I agree with the others - a 1/2 moa factory rifle is rare - maybe one in 20. I must have struggled to get a factory rifle of any kind to shoot even 3/4 moa for almost 10 years - getting a custom barrel is the easiest route.

Guess I should go buy a lotto ticket. I've found a load for all 5 tikkas I have that'll consistently shoot 5-shot 1/2" groups. It takes a little work but I've never pulled my hair out finding it.

OP, I like to shoot a ladder or two to find pressure. Then if there's a flat spot or area that looks promising I'll load some 5 shot strings around that charge weight and go shoot.

Last work up I did for a 243:

-day 1: 10 shot ladder
-day 2: three 5 shot groups at different charge weights around node. One was 1/2" with 5.9sd, 16es
-day 3: reshot same powder charge, same 1/2" results 7.5sd, 20es. Also tested a couple others.
Load work up done.

Try a different bullet if you can't get your current to shoot. Not saying a win 70 won't shoot, but the only one I've ever had was a 2" gun at best (Walmart special 20+ years ago).

 

[roymunson]

Thanks fellas. I have several loads shooting 1-1.5 moa. Maybe I have been reading too much online. But I see folks with tighter groups and, being self taught, I’m not sure if im
Missing something. All I wanna do is be able to kill an elk out to 500 yards. These loads seem capable. Just making sure I’m not settling when I shouldn’t be.

 

[49ereric]

Try different weight bullets and brands as has been previously mentioned and let the barrel decide. Spitzer Bullet might shoot better than boat-tails as well.
you will likely find a bullet weight,style and brand that stands out.

 

[Matt5266]

I have this same rifle. Mine shoots .5 inch groups with Berger 185 classic hunters with IMR 4350. I dont remember the COAL or powder charge off the top of my head though. Pic is 2 rounds fired then adjusted and fired 5 rounds.

 

[Wyomuleskinner]

Painless load development (mine)

I have had multiple people ask me to lay out how I do load development being that what I do is different. Since Shaen @Shooter71 just rebarreled a Tikka 595 in 6XC I thought it would be easy to show how I do it. It’s a Master Sporter with a T3 lite profiled 20” barrel- keep in mind it is a T3...

rokslide.com

this is good advice

 

[StevenMn]

I have tried nosler partitions in a few rifles and have never been impressed with the accuracy. I would try some 180gr berger vlds.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I've read Formidulous' thread about this and I am missing on what to do when I'm not happy with accuracy.

Swap bullet or powder. If you test 2 or 3 known bullet/powder combos and none of them will shoot acceptably, have a quality barrel spun up if you like the rifle.

 

[WTNUT]

Roymunsen:

It is your old buddy WTNUT. Lots of good advice here. They have been helping me and I have been reloading since I was 16 so 40 years. Two great points early on. Your rifle will tell you what bullet it likes. You will not tell it what it likes to eat.

Next, agree with what was said. A Nosler Partition is NOT a tack driver for accuracy. In fact it is the least accurate bullet I have ever shot. Good luck.


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[Flyjunky]

I'm YT, Rokslide, and Internet taught on my reloading, and Ive done ok for hunting purposes, but have never found one of those rounds that shoots 1/2 MOA every time. Can someone walk me thru it? I'm in the process of finding a load for elk for this fall and enjoy the tinkering...

What I've done so far.
300 WSM, Winchester Model 70

1. Select a bullet I want to use (Nosler Partition 165)
2. Select a powder (H4350, H4831, IMR 4350)
3. Prep cases and build 5 rounds of a specific powder (H4350) at the low end of the charge scale, and in intervals up to the higher end. (64 gr, 65 gr, 66 gr, etc)
4. Load them to an OAL suggested in the Nosler book. (2.815")
5. Go shoot those 5 rounds at 100 yards and see what groups best
6. If I find a charge that groups better than the others, mess with the seating depths to find a node.

My issue is that off a bench, I'd like to see something less than 1 MOA. My rifle's capable, I think.

So when I'm building rounds with different charges, I know seating depth can affect accuracy, should I be chasing a velocity with those charges and forget accuracy? Once I get a velocity I like, then mess with seating depth for accuracy?

I've read Formidulous' thread about this and I am missing on what to do when I'm not happy with accuracy.

I know there are really accurate rounds out there, but I've never been lucky enough to get those groups where bullet holes touch. I can get it pretty easily into the 1-2 MOA range. If I'm just hunting, is that pretty standard and leave it alone? Or am I looking for a unicorn?

You mention seating depth and also that you are loading to what the manual says. Have you measured your gun to see where 2.815" puts you?

Regardless, I agree with others that I'd be looking at trying a different bullet.

 

[Article 4]

Here is how I run load testing:

After making sure that my bullet to barrel choice is stable using the stability calc that you can find on JBM or Berger, I will set up for my ladder

1. You will need 22 loaded rounds using your cocktail
2. 15 shot ladder using .3 grain increments starting at slightly higher than lowest load up to end
3. Load 5 shots in the middle of the ladder to zero - start with completely clean bbl and shoot a 5 shot group, the last 3 or 4 should be your zero confirmation - wait at least 1 minute between shots
4. Then shoot my ladder at 550 with 2 shots at target at that distance to confirm dope to start ladder
5. I shoot ladder at 550 to create enough spread to find a node but not going out to 700 or 800 to ensure I am not adding variance due to conditions or shooter error - this works well for me - again at least 1 minute between shots to ensure bbl temp consistency throughout test
6. Pick a 3 shot node - they should be nearly horizontal in spread and almost no vertical dispersion, lets call it shot 8 and 9 and 10
7. Then load the middle shot 9 for your group tests - starting at initial load and then moving both closer and farther off lands by .003 - continue experimenting until you get a group you are happy with

IME factory bbls are less likely to get sub .50 MOA although it can happen. If you can get a factory gun with handloads under 1 moa and perhaps close to .7 or .5 - the GO!

 

[roymunson]

I had similar results with accubonds of different weights. I did pick up some ELD-X 178s that may be worth a try.

I got good results with a TTSX last year. Just wanted to try something non copper for this hunt

 

[EdP]

My experience mirrors Verns with regard to GameKings. If a rifle won't shoot GKs well I am probably not going to keep it. I think you are asking a lot of Partitions. I would have suggested ABs too but it looks like you tried them already.

Maybe buy some factory loads with GKs or ABs then try to handload something that shoots better than the factory loads.

I find shooting over a chronograph helps me pick a load. The best statistics don't always give the best groups but are close, and bad stats never give me good groups.

 

[roymunson]

My experience mirrors Verns with regard to GameKings. If a rifle won't shoot GKs well I am probably not going to keep it. I think you are asking a lot of Partitions. I would have suggested ABs too but it looks like you tried them already.

Maybe buy some factory loads with GKs or ABs then try to handload something that shoots better than the factory loads.

I find shooting over a chronograph helps me pick a load. The best statistics don't always give the best groups but are close, and bad stats never give me good groups.

You like your gk’s performance on animals?