What 7mm caliber for 20” barrel?

[Anello]

I have a .280 Rem with a 22" barrel. My favorite gun. Plenty of power/velocity with 140's (2900-3050 depending on load). Accurate and very moderate recoil. I love the 7Mag and I love the idea of the 7MM short mags, but have not gone there as I don't have a need based on my experience with the .280 Rem. I know several folks on this site swear by the 7MM short mags in lighter rifles, but with your current set up that might not be an option. Recoil of the 7Mag with lighter platforms is cost prohibitive for me and I hate brakes. As you reload, you may find that the .280 Rem is pretty easy to work with. I have been using IMR 4350 and have solid accuracy and velocity in the 140's and 150's. I have been shooting TTSX's and GMX's primarily and am currently working on a lead load with 150 grain Sciroccos. I agree with your take on 7MM components, too. Another good selling point in this environment.

I've killed a bunch of Deer and pigs with mine, so I know it is plenty of gun for them out to reasonable ranges (0-400 or so). If I could ever stop passing up Black Bears I might have some thoughts on performance there, but I don't, and all the Elk I have killed were with the bow, so I don't have any anecdotal data on .280 Rem performance there either. But, I read a bunch of reports of folks on this site killing Elk with the 7mm-08, so I imagine a 20" barrel in .280 Rem would provide similar ballistic performance, albeit with the ability to use bigger bullets. I like the long action slick feeding for follow up shots with my rifle, so that might garner consideration. All the short mags I have owned over the years (in other calibers) shot great, but didn't feed as well. The last buck I killed with the .280 Rem required a quick follow up shot as it happened quickly, off-hand, so the slick feeding of the .280 was helpful.

Great thread. Thanks to the other posters for chiming in.

 

[TimberHunter]

Thanks all. I’m thinking I may be better selling the 7mm mag getting a savage ultra light in a 280AI with a 22” barrel


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[wyosam]

7-08ai or 284 win throated for whatever bullet you want to shoot seated long.


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[Zappaman]

Thanks all. I’m thinking I may be better selling the 7mm mag getting a savage ultra light in a 280AI with a 22” barrel


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Good idea.

You can also go another route with Savage. After putting a custom barrel on my stainless Savage Axis II (260ai), I sold the factory stainless barrel (un-shot for about $150 on eBay), flipped the plastic stock to a $230 maple stock (Boyds) and put a 12oz scope on it. Everyone one smiles when I hand it to them at about 6 1/2 lbs. I kept the old plastic stock to put back on when I hunt pigs in the thick stuff down in Texas.

I really like the XP II action for builds and have modded several stock guns over the years. I buy whatever caliber is closest to what I want to re-baeerl to (long or short action) and usually the mag that come with it works fine (i.e. 243 or 7mm08 for the 260 AI- all use the parent 308 case). You can get about any center feed mag (without having to do any mods), and the accu-trigger is excellent (and EASY to correctly modify for a 2 1/2 lb pull). I can often fit my barrels using old brass Vs gauges and just need a savage nut wrench and a the barrel vice (broke a standard vice after a few years .

After doing five mods on the XP II receivers I've never had any feeding problems (with stock or ai fire formed cases) feeding in any of these guns. That said, all short actions in other rifles I've shot can benefit from a slower, steady cycle so as not to bind the case when loading a follow-up shot.

Good luck!

 

[TimberHunter]

Good idea.

You can also go another route with Savage. After putting a custom barrel on my stainless Savage Axis II (260ai), I sold the factory stainless barrel (un-shot for about $150 on eBay), flipped the plastic stock to a $230 maple stock (Boyds) and put a 12oz scope on it. Everyone one smiles when I hand it to them at about 6 1/2 lbs. I kept the old plastic stock to put back on when I hunt pigs in the thick stuff down in Texas.

I really like the XP II action for builds and have modded several stock guns over the years. I buy whatever caliber is closest to what I want to re-baeerl to (long or short action) and usually the mag that come with it works fine (i.e. 243 or 7mm08 for the 260 AI- all use the parent 308 case). You can get about any center feed mag (without having to do any mods), and the accu-trigger is excellent (and EASY to correctly modify for a 2 1/2 lb pull). I can often fit my barrels using old brass Vs gauges and just need a savage nut wrench and a the barrel vice (broke a standard vice after a few years .

After doing five mods on the XP II receivers I've never had any feeding problems (with stock or ai fire formed cases) feeding in any of these guns. That said, all short actions in other rifles I've shot can benefit from a slower, steady cycle so as not to bind the case when loading a follow-up shot.

Good luck!

Did you put a carbon barrel on it? Any pictures?


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[Zappaman]

No, I put a stainless Apache barrel (one of two matching chambered barrels he made for me) in a light sporter contour. On the bench it prints 3/4" 200 yrd. groups on calm days. Sorry no pics. BTW that barrel is 24" and shoots smooth and quiet (for the 260ai it is). The maple stock and fixed 6x scope is where the weight reductions matters on this build. I'm sure the Carbon would be very nice though!

 

[TimberHunter]

No, I put a stainless Apache barrel (one of two matching chambered barrels he made for me) in a light sporter contour. On the bench it prints 3/4" 200 yrd. groups on calm days. Sorry no pics. BTW that barrel is 24" and shoots smooth and quiet (for the 260ai it is). The maple stock and fixed 6x scope is where the weight reductions matters on this build. I'm sure the Carbon would be very nice though!

Sounds like a cool gun forsure!

With wanting to have a suppressor on the barrel, I need at least .100” inch of a shoulder above the 5/8 threading. That’s what has pushed me to carbon barrels because a steel barrel that thick is fairly heavy


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[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Sounds like a cool gun forsure!

With wanting to have a suppressor on the barrel, I need at least .100” inch of a shoulder above the 5/8 threading. That’s what has pushed me to carbon barrels because a steel barrel that thick is fairly heavy


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Not necessarily
You need a muzzle diameter of .700 for 5/8×24 threads that puts you around a #4 contour so 3.5 ish lbs.
I just went with a #5 Rock Creek and had it spiral fluted, its 3lbs at 24".
I'd go that route before dealing with the downsides of CF wrapped barrels any day!

 

[Newtosavage]

Simple. .284 Win.

My .284 Win barrel arrives tomorrow (21") and I'm putting it on a stainless LW Storm long action.

Any more powder than that, and I'd want a longer barrel.

I hunted with 7mm-08's with 20" barrels for years. Many of them. They all did great. But you said you wanted bigger so .284 Win should fit the bill.

 

[Newtosavage]

Good idea.

You can also go another route with Savage. After putting a custom barrel on my stainless Savage Axis II (260ai), I sold the factory stainless barrel (un-shot for about $150 on eBay), flipped the plastic stock to a $230 maple stock (Boyds) and put a 12oz scope on it. Everyone one smiles when I hand it to them at about 6 1/2 lbs. I kept the old plastic stock to put back on when I hunt pigs in the thick stuff down in Texas.

I really like the XP II action for builds and have modded several stock guns over the years. I buy whatever caliber is closest to what I want to re-baeerl to (long or short action) and usually the mag that come with it works fine (i.e. 243 or 7mm08 for the 260 AI- all use the parent 308 case). You can get about any center feed mag (without having to do any mods), and the accu-trigger is excellent (and EASY to correctly modify for a 2 1/2 lb pull). I can often fit my barrels using old brass Vs gauges and just need a savage nut wrench and a the barrel vice (broke a standard vice after a few years .

After doing five mods on the XP II receivers I've never had any feeding problems (with stock or ai fire formed cases) feeding in any of these guns. That said, all short actions in other rifles I've shot can benefit from a slower, steady cycle so as not to bind the case when loading a follow-up shot.

Good luck!

This is the beauty of Savage rifles for the home 'smith. I love tinkering with them.

 

[Zappaman]

I was a 700 man for years, but I ALSO like to 'tinker' and found with a few tools that I could do everything I practically wanted on a Savage. I have owned several 110/116 Savages and the Axis II does a superb job with less weight (up to the 300 WinMag!). The factory stocks are crap if you need a front bi-pod, but other than that... for the cash I can't think of another gun I'd want to "tweak"

I have a 22-250ai, 260ai, 243, 223, and 270 in Axis II actions; but barrels and stocks are all after-market. ALL of them shoot easy 3/4 MOA (and some shoot touching 200 yd. groups. Nothing wrong with the floating bolt system they use despite opinions that come around. For a GOOD lightweight hunting gun the Axis II receiver is a winner in my book!

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Simple. .284 Win.

My .284 Win barrel arrives tomorrow (21") and I'm putting it on a stainless LW Storm long action.

Any more powder than that, and I'd want a longer barrel.

I hunted with 7mm-08's with 20" barrels for years. Many of them. They all did great. But you said you wanted bigger so .284 Win should fit the bill.

Why is that?
More powder will still equal more velocity in a 20" barrel

 

[Feurhand]

Why is that?
More powder will still equal more velocity in a 20" barrel

I suspect he's referring to the efficiency of the cartridge for a given barrel length. More powder does equal more velocity, but there are diminishing returns on velocity/charge weight when using a shorter barrel.

 

[Formidilosus]

I suspect he's referring to the efficiency of the cartridge for a given barrel length. More powder does equal more velocity, but there are diminishing returns on velocity/charge weight when using a shorter barrel.

Not really. That is a way overblown and mostly myth that is continually repeated with no verification. Using powders and loads optimum for each, every cartridge will average between 20-30 FPS per inch.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I suspect he's referring to the efficiency of the cartridge for a given barrel length. More powder does equal more velocity, but there are diminishing returns on velocity/charge weight when using a shorter barrel.

As Formidilosus said above this is mostly bad information.
I've taken my 6.5 saum from 25" to 16", and with the same load/bullet I lost 200 fps (so 22 fps/inch).
At 16" it's still faster than a 26" 6.5 creed, from a velocity standpoint there's no downside.

 

[Feurhand]

Not really. That is a way overblown and mostly myth that is continually repeated with no verification. Using powders and loads optimum for each, every cartridge will average between 20-30 FPS per inch.

I can't speak for @Newtosavage, but it sounded to me like he was talking about the efficiency delta between cartridges, not within a cartridge. For example, an 18" barrel .308 pushing a 168gr bullet is going to be slower than an 18" .300 Win Mag pushing a 168gr bullet, but the latter is burning what, 40-50% more powder? To get the greatest benefit from the win mag's larger powder charge, a longer barrel is preferable.

 

[Feurhand]

As Formidilosus said above this is mostly bad information.
I've taken my 6.5 saum from 25" to 16", and with the same load/bullet I lost 200 fps (so 22 fps/inch).
At 16" it's still faster than a 26" 6.5 creed, from a velocity standpoint there's no downside.

Totally agree here; my point is that although there's no downside from a velocity standpoint, there are other considerations (muzzle blast, noise, cost, recoil, etc.). Those tradeoffs may be worth it for the shorter barrel and more powerful round, but that depends on what you want from the rifle.
EDIT: spelling

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Totally agree here; my point is that although there's no downside from a velocity standpoint, there are other considerations (muzzle blast, noise, cost, recoil, etc.). Those tradeoffs may be worth it for the shorter barrel and more powerful round, but that depends on what you want from the rifle.
EDIT: spelling

Yep those could be tradeoffs but I'm rocking a Banish 30 suppressor on the shorty saum and it sounds like a freaking 22 LR with the recoil of a 22-250.
I would never go sub 22" on a barrel if it weren't suppressed