What are the differences in "Small Rifle Primers" #400 vs #450?

[TheGDog]

What are the differences in "Small Rifle Primers" #400 vs #450?

Can't remember where I read this, but went looking on InterWebz to find out which primers I would need for the 6.5 Creedmoor I recently purchased for my son.

Somewhere in what I read, somebody recommended #450's from CCI.

So ok, looks like #450's are billed as "MAGNUM Small Rifle Primers"

So does this mean that, for 6.5cm, in cases designed for Small Rifle Primer size, that I must make sure... in whatever brand I can find available... that it specifically states "MAGNUM Small Rifle Primers"?

...OR...

Should it work just fine with any "Small Rifle Primer" you can find?

I'm very GREEN/n00b to reloading, so forgive my ignorance in this.

EDIT: Is there a scenario similar to this when it comes to Small Pistol Primers as well?

Thanks Guys.

 

[BFR]

Use whichever works better for your rifle, just make sure your brass is for small primers not large. The difference in MY rifle is minimal velocity and no difference in accuracy. All of my brass currently are all large rifle pocket mostly Hornady once fired. I do have some new Lapua small pockets but haven’t used them yet.

 

[TheGDog]

"Minimal in velocity" equates to how much of a velocity change? < 50fps?

 

[ljalberta]

I use the 450 in the Creed cases.

Some interesting information here: https://carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/the-primer-on-primers.77416/.

 

[TheGDog]

I use the 450 in the Creed cases.

Some interesting information here: https://carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/the-primer-on-primers.77416/.

Thank you very much for that Link!

Is there another chart where it shows you examples of which calibers fall under which primer categories?

For Example:
Small Handgun Standard -vs- Small Handgun Magnum?
Small Rifle -vs- Small Rifle Magnum?

 

[ljalberta]

Thank you very much for that Link!

Is there another chart where it shows you examples of which calibers fall under which primer categories?

For Example:
Small Handgun Standard -vs- Small Handgun Magnum?
Small Rifle -vs- Small Rifle Magnum?

If you scroll down and read that the further posts there, there are some discussions on use of primer types based on expected pressure, uses, and powder types.

No specific charts that I know of though.

 

[BFR]

"Minimal in velocity" equates to how much of a velocity change? < 50fps?

In 10 round average it was 24fps muzzle. Muzzle velocity with LRPs 2950, with MagLRP 2974, impact difference @ 200yds was about 1/2”, basically overlapping, at 300 yds the groups were about 1 1/4”.
Keep in mind your rifle may respond differently than my Bergara with Hammer Hunter 124gr bullets.

 

[menhaden_man]

 

[menhaden_man]

450s also have a thicker cup - AR15s have floating firing pins so 450s and #41s are recommended to avoid a slam fire.

I’ve shot quite a few 400s (couple cases) in ARs and yet to see firsthand a slam fire.

Don’t know how velocity and ignition stacks up in 400 vs 450 in other cartridges but in my 7RM I’ve noticed another 50 fps and lower SD with large magnum primers. Looks like @BFR saw a smaller change above but still worth thinking over.

These days I’d get whatever you can and stock em up. WW3 not going to be good for civilian ammo.

 

[wind gypsy]

Just because the creedmoor is a 308 family case intially designed around a LRP, I lean towards always using a hotter primer if using SRP brass. Not saying you cant/wont do very well with a standard SRP but especially for hunting/cold weather situations, i'd want more spark.

 

[TheGDog]

Just because the creedmoor is a 308 family case intially designed around a LRP, I lean towards always using a hotter primer if using SRP brass. Not saying you cant/wont do very well with a standard SRP but especially for hunting/cold weather situations, i'd want more spark.

OK.. so sounds like you'd _should_ be able to use regular SR's... but especially for when going on a hunt, it'd behoove you to go up to SR Magnum primers instead, Got it.

Pretty sure the fired brass I have for his 6.5cm (a Federal loading that was w/ 130gr TSX and it was very accurate with it.) is an SR brass. YEah.. just compared it to some .223 Rem and it's same size. So SR's.

 

[Sudsy]

If the recipe calls for standard primers and all you have are magnum, do not load to maximum ! The magnums do burn hotter and will cause a rise in pressure.

 

[Lawnboi]

For a creedmoor for hunting in potentially cold, I’d skip both and get some LRP brass.

 

[TheGDog]

For a creedmoor for hunting in potentially cold, I’d skip both and get some LRP brass.

Just for my own knowledge.. what are some symptoms the user might experience... that can happen when in the cold, and using the smaller SR's?

 

[Lawnboi]

Just for my own knowledge.. what are some symptoms the user might experience... that can happen when in the cold, and using the smaller SR's?

Hang fires.

 

[Pharmseller]

I use magnum primers in loads with ball powders (Big Game, Hunter) regardless of cartridge.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

I use magnum primers in loads with ball powders (Big Game, Hunter) regardless of cartridge.

Any reason not to simply use magnum primers across the board for everything including the extruded powders?

 

[ckleeves]

Any reason not to simply use magnum primers across the board for everything including the extruded powders?

It all depends on the cartridge, powder being sparked etc but I frequently find using a 210 or a BR2 produces way tighter numbers than a mag primers even in 70+ grain cartridges. I have fired thousands of rounds loaded with non-mag primers I have yet to have a single hangfire. I think it really depends on the powder, I’m not advocating for sparking N570 or StaBall HD with a non mag but H1000 seems to consistently like a cooler primer. In a few 300 wm’s and 300 PRC’s it’s been night and day different like going from a ES of 60 to ES of 25 just switching from a 215 to a 210.

 

[Pharmseller]

Any reason not to simply use magnum primers across the board for everything including the extruded powders?

Not really.