Which sleeping bags for all season coverage?

[doctor_dirt]

Hi all. First Time poster, long time lurker. I always find useful information here but now I’m stuck at a gear upgrade decision. Any input would be appreciated!

I’m looking to upgrade to a quality sleeping bag or two. My goal is to be covered for most temp ranges from summer to late fall in the Rockies. To be more specific I live in N Idaho, and will be backpacking/hunting in areas from the sawtooths to the bitterroots. I also have trips planned to the Missouri River breaks in MT and spend a lot of time bird hunting all over central and eastern MT. That being said I know all about drastic weather swings especially in oct-nov in MT (I’ve goose hunted in sub-zero one day and pheasant hunted in 60*F a few days later). So....

What two sleeping bag temp ratings should I be looking at to cover all my bases? What do you use?
I am pretty much decided on getting a Western Mountaineering MF series bag for my colder weather bag (looking at Kodiac, Antelope, Badger). Recommendations? Also any bags you would pair with this for the warmer months of aug/sept? I’d like to keep my total budget to $1000 or less. FWIW I’ll be sleeping in a Tarptent stratospire on backpack trips (no stove).

 

[Desk Jockey]

Welcome.

Most would say that western mountaineering is or is at the top of the heap for backcountry bags. One will chew up a good chunk of your $1k budget but they will five years of service.

For your summer bag, maybe consider something synthetic. I have and like a Nemo forte and have become a big fan of their products in general. I also have an enlightened equipment convert that is a bag / quilt hybrid. The 30* version in apex is fairly cheap and great for warm weather because you can open it up and vent easily. I am a bigger guy so shoulder room tends to influence my choices and all the bags above are roomy.

 

[Dalen88]

I dont have a lot of experience but i really like my stone glacier chilkoot 15 deg. Havent used it in mid summer yet though.

 

[mrbillbrown]

I use my 0* Kifaru Slick bag year round. If it’s warm, I leave it unzipped for venting. I’ve also got a 20* Slick bag and pair that with a Woobie sometimes. Gives me a pretty good temp range with those two items.


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[Elkslayer67]

Western Mountaineering are great bags but have you looked at Outdoor Vitals? I have the -15 degree summit. It has more down and is rated 15 degrees lower than the WM Kodiak all the other specs are pretty much the same but the Outdoor Vitals Summit costs less than half the price. For my warmer weather bag I use their 0 degree quilt. I have found it easier to fold it back when it is too warm out. But it sure comes in handy when you get those unexpected frigid nights. Works great in a hammock too. I got both for less than $600. Just something to think about.

 

[sneaky]

Western Mountaineering are great bags but have you looked at Outdoor Vitals? I have the -15 degree summit. It has more down and is rated 15 degrees lower than the WM Kodiak all the other specs are pretty much the same but the Outdoor Vitals Summit costs less than half the price. For my warmer weather bag I use their 0 degree quilt. I have found it easier to fold it back when it is too warm out. But it sure comes in handy when you get those unexpected frigid nights. Works great in a hammock too. I got both for less than $600. Just something to think about.

I should hope that a -15 degree bag has more down than a 0 degree bag. That's comparing apples to oranges. OV makes a pretty good bag for their price points, but they don't really compare on a materials/construction basis. For someone looking at staying in a particular budget they are an option for sure. You also have to remember that OV uses 800fp down that is treated, which adds weight to the down but not insulating value. WM uses 900fp down that they call "850+" that isn't treated. That means that there isn't 5-10% of the weight being hydrophobic coatings on the down. If you compare 38.096oz in the -15 deg OV in a long to 32oz in a 0 deg Kodiak in a long it comes out much closer than you think. 38.096x800=30,476.8 vs 32x900=28,800. 6 extra ounces of down doesn't really give a huge advantage in insulation power because 900fp gives more insulation per weight than 800fp of equal weight. Now, if you compare a -10WM to the -15 OV the tables definitely shift. OV certainly has their niche in the market for sure.

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[Elkslayer67]

Sneaky
I think you missed my point. I am aware of the difference between fill weights. I don’t believe this is an apples to oranges comparison. WM states 850+ fill weight OV states 800+ fill weight using 900 to 800 is showing a bias on your part. The difference between 850+ and 800+ is minimal. Even using 900 to 800 you even showed the OV has more loft as per your math.

Comparison-

Fill weight:

WM- 32oz of 850+
OV- 38oz of 800+

Overall weight:

WM- 2lbs 15oz
OV- 3lbs 3.5oz

Price:

WM- $700
OV-$300


As I previously stated Western Mountaineering makes great bags and if given both bags out in the field I do not believe I would be able to rate one over the other. The OV should be slightly warmer just based on the volume the down takes up ( 30,476 vs 28,800 )The VERY noticeable difference come when you pay for them. The WM is approximately $700. Where as the OV is $300. I can not see spending $400 more for a 4.5oz weight savings. Plus as you said Outdoor Vitals uses DWR down where as Western Mountaineering does not. A plus for Outdoor Vitals IMO.

If you go with the -10 WM bags the difference in price get greater and the WM bags get narrower. But the OV still holds its own in comparing overall weight and fill weight.

 

[doctor_dirt]

Thanks for the replies y’all. I’m definitely ok with a cheaper synthetic bag for warm weather, so will check those Nemo bags and others. Also, I’ve never really considered a quilt but the more I think about it the more I think it might be a good fit. I sleep cold and have poor circulation to my extremities in freezing temps, but sleep pretty hot in anything over. Being able to open a quilt and ventilate sounds like it might be what I need. So a few follow up questions:

For those with quilts: How accurate are the temp ratings? If I want a quilt for ~20-50*F, would a 20* rated quilt be enough? Or should I look at a little lower temp?

For those with 0*F rated bags: What temp is too warm for your bag?

 

[EJFS]

I was a little nervous going to a quilt at first, but I love my 20* enlightened equipment. So many variables with ratings, but with a good sleeping pad (3.5r), a wool hat, and mid weight layers I can go to 20, any colder and I'd need to sleep in a down jacket and some insulated pants. Everyone is different though. I have a 20* quilt and a 5* mummy and that combo covers all of my needs. I double them up for winter temps.

 

[Elkslayer67]

As I have gotten older I don’t sleep as warm as I used to and I sleep in a tee shirt and boxers. So my setup has a very low rating.

For trips that I know will be 40 degrees or lower I use my -15 degree bag if the temp rises during the trip I just unzip and use like a quilt.

For warmer trips I use a 0 degree quilt. I can tuck it in when the temps drop below freezing or kick it off when the temp rises. It also works great in a hammock.

If I ever find myself in extremely low temps I can combine my bag and quilt. But at that temp I don’t think you could get me out of it for anything.

I also have an old 30 degree bag that I sometimes use in the dead of summer. It is no where near a 30 degree bag now.

 

[ianpadron]

I think the best do-it-all combo for Western hunting is a 20 degree quilt and a o degree bag. Quilt can be vented and used as a blanket in the summer, still plenty warm to get you well into October (most of the time) and then use the bag whenever you're expecting it to be in the 20s or colder. You can even get real fancy and combine the 2 if it's -10 lol.

 

[doctor_dirt]

Thanks again for all the replies. And I totally agree @ianpadron , for a two bag/quilt setup that seems ideal for the variety of weather I’ll be seeing. I’m pretty much decided on a Western Mountaineering kodiak or antelope (0* and 5* respectively) plus an Enlightened Equipment 10 or 20 degree Revelation. I can’t think of a situation where that combo won’t work. Now just hope I can handle the quilt life

 

[CO-AJ]

I too am upgrading, but am looking at the WM Versalite and Feathered Friends Lark UL. Both are basically same weight, pack size, and price. I looked at the OV and got one of their free pillows and a liner, I struggle with their price points. Seems way too low for a quality bag, even the large manufacturers like Nemo, Big Agnes, Sea to Summit, etc are more than 100.00 more expensive than OV, that is mainly why I dropped them from consideration. There has to be a construction/quality reason why they are 1/2 price of Feathered Friends, WM, Valandre, Stone Glacier, and other top quality products.

 

[doctor_dirt]

Another relevant thread if anyone is following:

Which two bag system: 30 and 0 degree bags?

I have a 30 degree bag and am looking for a colder weather bag. The 30 will take me comfortably down to 40 degrees, bearable in 35 if I pile on some nightclothes. For colder weather I don't see myself going below 10 degrees. I am been looking at a WM Sequoia MF with ovestuff from Hermit's Hut...

www.rokslide.com

 

[rj2]

I have a 20 degree sleeping bag, I was thinking of adding like a 30 or 40 degree quilt to take me to 0.

Anyone ever run a quilt inside or outside a mummy bag? Lose too much loft to make it worth it?

 

[Elkslayer67]

I too am upgrading, but am looking at the WM Versalite and Feathered Friends Lark UL. Both are basically same weight, pack size, and price. I looked at the OV and got one of their free pillows and a liner, I struggle with their price points. Seems way too low for a quality bag, even the large manufacturers like Nemo, Big Agnes, Sea to Summit, etc are more than 100.00 more expensive than OV, that is mainly why I dropped them from consideration. There has to be a construction/quality reason why they are 1/2 price of Feathered Friends, WM, Valandre, Stone Glacier, and other top quality products.

I use OV. I had the same concerns. I have both a down bag and quilt from OV. I am very pleased with them. If you are on the fence give them a chance you will not be disappointed. Just my opinion.

 

[TonySkyline]

I dont have a lot of experience but i really like my stone glacier chilkoot 15 deg. Havent used it in mid summer yet though.

This is what I'm going with after a ton of research and countless amazing reviews. I'm going to go with the 0* model because it'll mainly be for October and later but I'd rather be hot and peeling off layers than waking up freezing all night. I'm sure most of us have been there before and that is a quick way to be miserable on a week long hunt. Good choice.

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[jt4]

I had the 15* chilkoot for a bit but decided to return it. The fit and finish was great. My original thought was to choose SG over WM or FF because I wanted to support a more hunting favorable company. The only fallback was a made in China tag which threw me off. I’m not sure why at that price point I would pay nearly the same exact amount and not get the made in USA product. I’ll pay the extra 10%.

I know the little pillows I got from outdoor vitals say made in China but I can’t speak for their bags. Can anyone confirm where they’re made?

Again, not knocking the SG bag at all. It seemed really well made and I have no doubts believing it was a great bag that is true to its rating.


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[CO-AJ]

Just ordered my WM Versalite from Hermit's Hut. They do a free 3oz overstuff and their base price is a few $$ less. Had some questions and they got right back to me even on a Sat and Sun afternoon. Can't wait to see the bag, it is my first "quality" bag. Tent and pack are next, likely both from SO.

 

[sneaky]

Sneaky
I think you missed my point. I am aware of the difference between fill weights. I don’t believe this is an apples to oranges comparison. WM states 850+ fill weight OV states 800+ fill weight using 900 to 800 is showing a bias on your part. The difference between 850+ and 800+ is minimal. Even using 900 to 800 you even showed the OV has more loft as per your math.

Comparison-

Fill weight:

WM- 32oz of 850+
OV- 38oz of 800+

Overall weight:

WM- 2lbs 15oz
OV- 3lbs 3.5oz

Price:

WM- $700
OV-$300


As I previously stated Western Mountaineering makes great bags and if given both bags out in the field I do not believe I would be able to rate one over the other. The OV should be slightly warmer just based on the volume the down takes up ( 30,476 vs 28,800 )The VERY noticeable difference come when you pay for them. The WM is approximately $700. Where as the OV is $300. I can not see spending $400 more for a 4.5oz weight savings. Plus as you said Outdoor Vitals uses DWR down where as Western Mountaineering does not. A plus for Outdoor Vitals IMO.

If you go with the -10 WM bags the difference in price get greater and the WM bags get narrower. But the OV still holds its own in comparing overall weight and fill weight.

Dude, have you even researched WHY I used 900 vs 800? Obviously not. The WM down is 900+ fp from their supplier, they rate it as 850+ because the weight of the material for the shell and liner used compresses the down so they conservatively rate it as 850+. That would also mean that your coated goose down in the OV bags will end up more in the 750 range because the loft in it will also be affected by the liner and shell material compressing it. It's not a biased claim, it's freaking logic and science. Also, interestingly enough OV doesn't even list footbox widths internally, just says 19" which would be 38" once you double that. You claim WM bags are narrower. Bristlecone is 48" footbox and Lynx is 39" footbox. Who is being biased here? I've owned an OV bag for a very short period of time because it leaked down worse than an old Cloudveil jacket I used to have. You're comparing the gold standard in sleeping bags to a Chinese made manufacturer direct line of bags that are made to hit a price point, not a performance metric. Price is obviously a factor but you can go through multiple lesser quality bags and spend more money than buying one good bag and being done.

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