Why a carbon wrapped barrel?

[woods89]

I make this post with a bit of trepidation. I am NOT intending to belittle anyone's equipment! But over the last while I have had a question that I am curious about. Why are carbon wrapped barrels so popular on hunting rifles?
How much weight do they actually save to achieve the same stiffness as a standard steel barrel? I have noticed they are used on a lot of magnum rifles that require 26-28'' barrels for best efficiency. Do the weight savings become more significant at these lengths?
I have heard the reason that they disperse heat better, but do they really suck enough heat away from the throat area to make a barrel life difference? And my gunsmith tells me that a well built rifle with anything more substantial than a light sporter barrel should not start to walk impacts meaningfully until it is really hot. And how many of us are dumping 10 rnds downrange in a big hurry with a hunting rig regularly? I almost always give my barrel 5 min or so after 5 or 10 rounds, just for barrel life purposes. It seems to me that they make more sense in a match setting where a lot of rounds have to be fired in short sessions.
Again, I am trying to learn. I know they have been slickly marketed, and likely a lot of rifles have been purchased for that reason, but I also see people using them that I know don't buy into hype, so there must be some real advantages. And I can certainly appreciate continuing innovation. Just because I may never buy one doesn't mean they don't have a real purpose for somebody else.

 

[cjl2010]

Look cool, similar weight to sporter contours but allowed me to use a bigger diameter brake. Now I use suppressors with shorter barrels but stayed with the carbon since they really aren’t much more money than a fluted steel blank and my stocks were inletted for carbon anyways.

You are going to get a bunch of answers from “engineers” and this will more than likely turn into a shit show. Lots of older threads to dig through with much of the info you asked already answered. Good luck.

 

[Lawnboi]

For me, it’s because I have the meat to screw on a suppressor or brake without all the weight.

Stiffness is hopefully an added benefit.

For 5/8x24 threading, pretty standard for precision rifle and suppressors, you need .750 of barrel diameter. That’s a pretty thick chunk of steel. Iv got a Bartlein 4 ready to be built for a suppressed hunting rifle, sucker is heavy! Once I get it fluted it won’t be too far off price wise either. That said I want a little weight for the build, I suck at shooting really light guns that recoil.

 

[Tahoe1305]

So I am building one right now and wondered the same.

IMO a sporter barrel of equal length will be lighter (and least in my case by about 1/2lb it looks like). The only real weight savings is on similar profiled barrels and since most of the CF barrels are .75”+ they would save weight especially in the longer lengths.

As far as heat, I think you hit it on the head. For hunting whose really firing off multiple rounds and worried about that.

For me personally I just wanted to try one. In my tikka I will be gaining weight vs losing it (superlite barrel for reference). In my bull barrel savage I’m losing nearly 2 lbs.

 

[PathFinder]

It's been said already, but it's having the diameter and rigidity of a larger diameter barrel without the added weight.

 

[Stalker69]

I feel like the “ barrel “ is still heating up about as quickly, but we just can’t feel it through the carbon wrap. And may cause many to over heat their barrels. I usually don’t fire more then three shots in succession any ways. And am finding I just prefer a traditional barrel.

 

[WyoWrangler]

So I am building one right now and wondered the same.

IMO a sporter barrel of equal length will be lighter (and least in my case by about 1/2lb it looks like). The only real weight savings is on similar profiled barrels and since most of the CF barrels are .75”+ they would save weight especially in the longer lengths.

As far as heat, I think you hit it on the head. For hunting whose really firing off multiple rounds and worried about that.

For me personally I just wanted to try one. In my tikka I will be gaining weight vs losing it (superlite barrel for reference). In my bull barrel savage I’m losing nearly 2 lbs.

My M70 has a sporter barrel that’s fluted, I always thought that a carbon barrel would be lighter. I had been trying to find actual weight differences because I was curious. Thanks for this info, avoids me spending a ton of money in the future.

 

[DangerRanger]

They look awesome

Both the carbon itself and if you use a can or a brake the thicker barrel looks better. After seeing a static weight deflection test from my gunsmith I started seriously doubting the stiffer claim for anything I would be using it for(not sagging as much with my can on the end) they flexed as much as a steel of equal weight, so what’s the point?

I still like them, mine shot great! In my latest build I went back to steel again, and happy I did.

 

[FURMAN]

I make this post with a bit of trepidation. I am NOT intending to belittle anyone's equipment! But over the last while I have had a question that I am curious about. Why are carbon wrapped barrels so popular on hunting rifles?
How much weight do they actually save to achieve the same stiffness as a standard steel barrel? I have noticed they are used on a lot of magnum rifles that require 26-28'' barrels for best efficiency. Do the weight savings become more significant at these lengths?
I have heard the reason that they disperse heat better, but do they really suck enough heat away from the throat area to make a barrel life difference? And my gunsmith tells me that a well built rifle with anything more substantial than a light sporter barrel should not start to walk impacts meaningfully until it is really hot. And how many of us are dumping 10 rnds downrange in a big hurry with a hunting rig regularly? I almost always give my barrel 5 min or so after 5 or 10 rounds, just for barrel life purposes. It seems to me that they make more sense in a match setting where a lot of rounds have to be fired in short sessions.
Again, I am trying to learn. I know they have been slickly marketed, and likely a lot of rifles have been purchased for that reason, but I also see people using them that I know don't buy into hype, so there must be some real advantages. And I can certainly appreciate continuing innovation. Just because I may never buy one doesn't mean they don't have a real purpose for somebody else.

A #4 steel barrel is as light as I would personally consider using and a 26" #4 weighs roughly 4lbs. A 26" Proof weighs roughly 3lbs and you can get lighter carbons from other manufacturers. The end result of two nearly identical rifles set up with these barrels is the same accuracy wise. Even though the carbon barrel rifle will end up 1lb lighter with a proper brake it will be easier to shoot unless you throw a big ugly brake on the #4. It may not sound like much but I am trying to shed every pound I can on back country hunts. There will be very few steel barrels in my future.

 

[woods89]

I am learning! Appreciate the info. And I am certainly not anti carbon. My elk hunting partner has a Christenson with a carbon wrapped barrel and likes it.
I'm guessing the weight savings get a lot more noticeable in a 26-28'' barrel compared to a 20-22''?
I will even admit to drooling over some of the barrels Mike from Hells Canyon Armory has turned out.....

 

[DJL2]

PROOF Research advertises 62% weight savings versus steel of comparable contour. Within their own product line, looking at 7mm RM pre-fit for the T3x, the factory contour steel is 2 lbs 9 oz and the CF (Sendero profile) is 2 lbs 15 oz. A quick look at your barrel calculator of choice would indicate that 62% might be overly ambitious, but not gratuitous.

PROOF also advertises enhanced heat transport, which is a more dubious claim. I’m not knocking their chemistry or their CF, but I’ve not seen testing to support this claim. The testing I have seen indicates that CF heats more quickly simply due to having less thermal mass. The challenge with heat dissipation is the barrel-air interface at that point...and shooting a hot barrel is shooting a hot barrel.

Your gunsmith might be right about sporter barrels doing the job when properly mounted...decades of shooting experience says that almost nobody can properly mount a barrel . Seriously, I see a lot of folks draw the line at 3B/4 contour. I’m working with my T3x now, I’ll let you know how it goes.

All that said, my M70 was just rebarreled with a Bartlein CF. My choice was between a 3B and a CF for the same weight (well, a bit less for the CF) and I opted for the stiffer barrel with more surface area. The factory barrel might be the real secret to the lore of heavy barrels - the Bartlein in any contour should handily out shoot it, but often in the past when folks were tricking a gun out for accuracy they wee also doing it for a competitive environment where the weight was an advantage unto itself.

ETA: take a look at LRI - they do a weight calculator and a fluting weight reduction calculator. If you’re looking for the ultimate in weight savings, steel is the winner...with the caveat that you need to be down with aggressive fluting.

 

[Brendan]

PROOF also advertises enhanced heat transport, which is a more dubious claim. I’m not knocking their chemistry or their CF, but I’ve not seen testing to support this claim. The testing I have seen indicates that CF heats more quickly simply due to having less thermal mass. The challenge with heat dissipation is the barrel-air interface at that point...and shooting a hot barrel is shooting a hot barrel.

Can't speak to Proof, but this will depend on the composition of the carbon and how advanced of a layup. My understanding is it's possible to "dope" the carbon composite and epoxies used to have better heat transfer than steel.

At the same time, they can also act as an insulator with different composition.

 

[bradb]

The only real reason I am running a couple of them is because I run switch barrels with a heavy steel. I shoot the steel most of the time as its cheaper to replace. Screw the carbon on for hunting and its much lighter and it matches the barrel channel of the stock. Otherwise I think we are splitting hairs other then the cool factor.
Yes I do run a can or break on those and not on mine #3 steel barrels

 

[Kraze]

I went to a CF barrel so I'd have enough meat at the end for muzzle threads so I can use a suppressor without gaining too much weight. I went from a 24" Tikka Superlite barrel to a 20" Carbon Six barrel and gained about 4.2 ounces (before adding the brake/suppressor).

 

[MTRaine]

I had a #5 contour blank laying around from when I worked in the barrel manufacturing industry that I had Kampfeld spiral flute for me. I wanted to go CF so so bad but my budget didn’t allow it. Finished at 26” the barrel is 2.5 oz heavier than a carbon barrel and looks just fine in my Manners EH5 inletted for a proof sendero light. Overall I couldn’t be happier. 3oz definitely isn’t worth the money difference I would of had to fork out for a CF

 

[Brendan]

For a hunter making just a couple shots, not a big difference.

But, comparing a carbon barrel to a steel of similar weight, the good carbon ones will show less POI shift and less of an increase in group size as the barrel heats up. Lightweight steel and fluted barrels are the worst for POI shift even after a small number of shots. (For the same weight, the carbon wrapped barrel is stiffer)

The heavy steel barrels still are the best absolute performers in both group size and POI shift, but can be much heavier. Who wants a 6+ pound barrel on a hunting gun?

Those characteristics matter for competition shooters, but it's also helpful if you're trying to do load development and get through ~30 shots.

 

[Mr. W]

Personally I like a little heavier barrel vs a lighter one so carbon hasn't appealed.

 

[tdhanses]

Carbon just looks better

 

[tdot]

I dont like nose heavy guns, so running a #4 or heavier barrel in a lightweight stock, can result in a nose heavy gun. Easiest fix is to add weight to the stock. Result is roughly double the weight.

So I find one of the advantages of the carbon barrel, is the ability to run a larger diameter barrel, for all its' benefits, but keeping a balanced rifle.

 

[AgentVenom]

I like short- stiff barrels. I also like mid weight barrels. The two didn’t go together until carbon barrels came On the scene. I’ve been running a proof barrel since 2013.

I’m also not a super lightweight junky anymore. I had exactly one featherlite magnum rifle, and will never do that again. After zeroing it- merely looking at it had me me developing a flinch. Biggest thing I go sub 7 lbs anymore is .308.