Why are all shops handing out 340 spine

[Muddler]

I feel this exact same way! Or they charge an arm and half a leg to get a D loop tied on. For these reasons i have gone to doing all my own work, yes it takes me awhile watching videos but dang does it feel good when your bow shoots spectacular and you did it all yourself.

Amen. I stopped in a shop this spring to pick up some nocks and his sign with pricing had $20 for a d loop install. I about fell over.

 

[sram9102]

Took 13 arrows to my local shop yesterday, a dozen built by black ovis and one bareshaft. Wanted them cut down and inserts installed. They didn't have a single hit insert in the shop... I need to take the jump and get all of the stuff to roll my own.

 

[Billy Goat]

I don't know of anywhere around here that charges you for things like d-loop or peep installs, string adjustments, etc when you purchase the bow there.

If you had a shop with all the equipment would you just be doing stuff for free when people aren't doing anything but purchasing the stuff online and bringing it to you? Do you bring the parts to your mechanic and then get them to put them on?

I have seen poor arrow recommendations from shops, likely from the fact they are target archers and don't broadhead tune, manufacturers charts say it's ok and safe so go with it. Also hard to stock components for 10% of your clientele. My point to this is lots of clients would think they were sold the wrong arrow if they went home and looked at the charts, then you are dealing with a client that goes around saying you sold them the wrong arrows. Likely more would be saying that, than the 10% who knew they actually needed a little stiffer spine for their setup.

I make sure to purchase what I can through my local brick and mortar store. I get some places are arrogant, the guy who runs the one I go to bent over backwards for me 14 years ago not knowing me from Adam. I had simply walked in off the street. I want to make sure I keep places like that in business.

 

[Muddler]

I don't expect a shop to make repairs for free, even if I bought the bow there... but $20 for 6" of cord and 5 minutes of time feels pretty steep to me.

 

[Billy Goat]

I don't expect a shop to make repairs for free, even if I bought the bow there... but $20 for 6" of cord and 5 minutes of time feels pretty steep to me.

I'll agree that it is. Just a lot of people don't understand the cost of employees and a building. I'd bet that if you purchased something you wouldn't be paying much if anything for a d-loop, don't know tho.

 

[ShawnGagliano]

To get what you want at shops is frustrating. My local shop doesn’t carry the higher spine arrows and components i would like. Ordered my last arrows from lancaster archery after i did my own research. Just had a shop thats by my work give me brass inserts for black eagle arrows saying they would fit goldtip xt hunters. I believed him and bought them. Found out they did not. Gold tips are 246 and black eagle are 245. Guess ill be ordering black eagle arrows from lancaster.

 

[ShawnGagliano]

I feel this exact same way! Or they charge an arm and half a leg to get a D loop tied on. For these reasons i have gone to doing all my own work, yes it takes me awhile watching videos but dang does it feel good when your bow shoots spectacular and you did it all yourself.

Were i got my last bow. The new tech was told to go watch a video when he asked the other tech a question. At one point they were both watching a youtube video when trying to install my limb driven rest. Had to buy the limb driven rest there cause the new tech broke the spring on my ripcord. I started working on my own stuff this year.

 

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

gues I was lucky because two shops here in AZ get it right, even talked me out of upping point weight so I wouldn't have to buy new arrows. I also now do everything DIY including building strings but that's because I like doing it and im way far from anyshops.

 

[Billy Goat]

To get what you want at shops is frustrating. My local shop doesn’t carry the higher spine arrows and components i would like. Ordered my last arrows from lancaster archery after i did my own research. Just had a shop thats by my work give me brass inserts for black eagle arrows saying they would fit goldtip xt hunters. I believed him and bought them. Found out they did not. Gold tips are 246 and black eagle are 245. Guess ill be ordering black eagle arrows from lancaster.

A lot of those inserts are for a .244-.246 arrow. I wouldn't be a bit concerned about using them.

 

[4ester]

For most guys with a 28” draw and 100 grain points they are exactly what they should be shooting.

But agree the guy at the shop should know that going longer and more point weight is going to weaken spine.


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[ShawnGagliano]

A lot of those inserts are for a .244-.246 arrow. I wouldn't be a bit concerned about using them.

I slide one in to my goldtip shaft and it had a slight movement also didn’t cover outer edge of shaft.

 

[Billy Goat]

I slide one in to my goldtip shaft and it had a slight movement also didn’t cover outer edge of shaft.

Won't surprise me if you find the same thing with a gt insert.

I'd recommend looking at the top hat stainless steel inserts. You can order them from Lancaster. They are longer than brass, and 60 instead of 50. Really nice inserts tho. And they make them in two different O.D. sizes depending on the wall thickness of your particular shaft.

 

[Pbast81]

Mainly because all the hype is on speed and most guys try to shoot as fast as they can and when their bows don’t tune everyone’s answer is to just shoot a rage.
I’d agree with everyone that says you’d be better off doing your own bow work and arrow building.

 

[pk_]

Because there is a very small fraction of humans on this earth who are good at what they do. In any walk of life. Whether it be their hobby, profession etc...

Getting paid to do something for a living doesn’t mean you are good at it. If that were the case, the lovely folks at the drive thru would never get your order wrong...

I gave up trying to find a ‘good’ archery shop years ago. I can mess my own crap up for free, don’t need to pay someone else to do it.

 

[bransen jack]

Been talking with a friend about our arrow setups for the upcoming whitetail season. This year I’ve decided to step up in arrow weight and will be shooting over 500 grains on a 250 spine arrow. My buddy is going to be shooting 125 grain Annihilator broadheads this year and is trying to decide what arrows to run. He went to the shop and the guy said just run whatever you want in a 340 spine. Now my friend and I are running similar setups in different bows. Both shooting 30” arrows out of 65-70lbs bows (I’m 65 he’s running 70#). Just based on my limited experience I’ve had terrible luck getting 340 to tune out of my bow with even just 100 grain tip. Since I’ve upped my weight and have been experimenting I found I could get the 250 to tune really well. So I was offering him advice on shooting atleast a 300 spine arrow but he said he trusts the guy at the shop. I even showed him on Eastons arrow chart that at 30” and 70 # they recommend 300 spine especially when he’s gonna run 125 up front.
I’ve been to quite a few shops in my area looking for arrrows and parts and it seems no shop even care to look at setup. Everyone I’ve been in does the same thing, they say tour shooting 65-70lbs just run a 340 without even looking at draw length or arrow point weight. Why is it so ingrained in the community to never go past that 340 spine. I’ve found it to be like pulling teeth to get someone to even discuss ordering a 300 spine let alone 250. I’ve tried to give my friend some solid advice becaus I don’t want him to have issues woth arrow flight down the road but he wants to just have the guy at the shop build his arrows for him. I can’t make him reconsider so it is what it is, but it just seems that the shops are not willing to to go above 340 spine. It’s frustrating to me. Is this just a problem in my area or is there something greater going on?

Interesting, i wouldn’t know why he wouldn’t suggest that. Interesting food for thought

 

[arronmabrey]

Been talking with a friend about our arrow setups for the upcoming whitetail season. This year I’ve decided to step up in arrow weight and will be shooting over 500 grains on a 250 spine arrow. My buddy is going to be shooting 125 grain Annihilator broadheads this year and is trying to decide what arrows to run. He went to the shop and the guy said just run whatever you want in a 340 spine. Now my friend and I are running similar setups in different bows. Both shooting 30” arrows out of 65-70lbs bows (I’m 65 he’s running 70#). Just based on my limited experience I’ve had terrible luck getting 340 to tune out of my bow with even just 100 grain tip. Since I’ve upped my weight and have been experimenting I found I could get the 250 to tune really well. So I was offering him advice on shooting atleast a 300 spine arrow but he said he trusts the guy at the shop. I even showed him on Eastons arrow chart that at 30” and 70 # they recommend 300 spine especially when he’s gonna run 125 up front.
I’ve been to quite a few shops in my area looking for arrrows and parts and it seems no shop even care to look at setup. Everyone I’ve been in does the same thing, they say tour shooting 65-70lbs just run a 340 without even looking at draw length or arrow point weight. Why is it so ingrained in the community to never go past that 340 spine. I’ve found it to be like pulling teeth to get someone to even discuss ordering a 300 spine let alone 250. I’ve tried to give my friend some solid advice becaus I don’t want him to have issues woth arrow flight down the road but he wants to just have the guy at the shop build his arrows for him. I can’t make him reconsider so it is what it is, but it just seems that the shops are not willing to to go above 340 spine. It’s frustrating to me. Is this just a problem in my area or is there something greater going on?

Litterly haven't been shooting since I was 17 and took my bow in for a new string and arrows and I got the same 340 spine. Since then i have been doing my research and thats not what I should be running. Now i got to go in and buy new arrows.

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[isItFallYet]

I posted this in the wrong thread earlier.

After reading your post, I too, did some more research since I was recommended a 340 spine. Per every arrow spine calculator that I have researched, it looks like my spine deflection should be much lower.

The Easton calculator seems to be the most confusing.

From the Easton website: (https://eastonarchery.com/huntingshaftselector/)

1. Determine your correct arrow length per diagram above.
2. Determine correct peak bow weight (not holding weight) and draw length with the assistance of a qualified archery pro shop.
3. Determine the ATA (Archery Trade Association) rating velocity of your bow.
4. Factor variables to the “standard compound setup” to determine CALCULATED bow weight. For compounds the “standard setup” includes use of a release aid and a brace height greater than 6.5”. Deviations for the standard compound setup require factoring in EACH VARIABLE as follows:
A. Brace height lower than 6.5”- add 5 lbs to CALCULATED bow weight.
B. Finger release- add 5 lbs to CALCULATED bow weight. Add the total of actual PEAK bow weight and all CALCULATED bow weight adjustments to determine final calculated weight. For example, with a 60 lb peak bow with a 6” brace height, calculated bow weight will be 60+5 for a calculated 65 lb bow weight. Now, in the “Calculated Peak Bow Weight” chart, select the column under the ATA range for your specific bow and your point weight. Follow the column down to your CALCULATED bow weight. Then, follow the chart to the right until you reach the column with your correct arrow length, and note the group letter (A-M). This letter will represent the suggested arrow group for your selection.

I'm shooting a Mathews Vertix set at 70lbs and ATA rating velocity (or IBO) of 343 fps. So add 5lbs since it's over 340 IBO, which now = 75lbs

Also add another 5lbs since the brace height is less than 6.5", so add another 5lbs, which now =80lbs

Again, add another 5lbs since I'm using a finger release. That gets to 85lbs.

So going off of Easton's charts and their calculator, there isn't an arrow that fits the math.

Am I doing something wrong? If so, what am I screwing up? Either way, I have been shooting 340 Axis arrows and that is what I plan on flinging at an elk if I get the opportunity.

 

[isItFallYet]

To add to my previous post, if you look at the generic charts, then yes a 340 is what the arrow manufacturers call for. But if you look at the adjusted bow weights that include riser height, IBO, release type, etc, then the 340s are definitely not the correct spine.

 

[Bmoore]

Bit of an update. The friend from my original post ended up going to a different shop than he usually goes too. I guess our conversation had him interested. Long story short he was impressed so he ordered a dozen shafts. First time he picked them up the fletchings were wrong. Ordered a helical and they seemed to fletch they woth a straight clamp. So the shop admitted fault and redid them. Then he realized they gave him 100 grain field points instead of the 125 requested. So he went back a second time. After getting back he screwed his field points in and found that 2 of the inserts (hit inserts on axis arrows) were not pushed in fully when installed because his field points don’t screw in flush woth the end of the shaft. So after this he has decided he’s going to be building his arrows by himself from now on. He said it took time but he now understands why I’ve started building my own.

 

[Zac]

Bit of an update. The friend from my original post ended up going to a different shop than he usually goes too. I guess our conversation had him interested. Long story short he was impressed so he ordered a dozen shafts. First time he picked them up the fletchings were wrong. Ordered a helical and they seemed to fletch they woth a straight clamp. So the shop admitted fault and redid them. Then he realized they gave him 100 grain field points instead of the 125 requested. So he went back a second time. After getting back he screwed his field points in and found that 2 of the inserts (hit inserts on axis arrows) were not pushed in fully when installed because his field points don’t screw in flush woth the end of the shaft. So after this he has decided he’s going to be building his arrows by himself from now on. He said it took time but he now understands why I’ve started building my own.

Let me guess he went to Sportsmans or Cabelas.