Wyoming license proposals, big cuts to Antelope.

[Rich M]

I support cuts when backed by "science", but I do not understand the concept of "self-preserve". If WYFG issues 100 doe tags for a given area, aren't they the experts saying that this area with a "success" rate of 50% can stand to lose 50 doe?

Demand vastly exceeds the supply for most tags, so if you don't buy the tag, someone else probably will. WY F&G establishes quotas based on data including harvest surveys, field observations, etc. Buying a tag and not using it just lowers the "success" rate used in computing tag allocations - lower rate means they increase tag allocations assuming the same harvest objective.

If there is a problem with tag allocations from WY F&G then data/facts should be available to prove them wrong. I prefer they establish those numbers rather than the WY legislature, outfitters or a disorganized group of hunters.

People talking about low numbers, not seeing hardly any antelope, and some folks want to go shoot does and reduce next year’s fawn recruitment.

The numbers aren’t set purely by science, politics and keeping hunters happy falls in there.

Someone posted the tag numbers up above, down 16,000 in the past 3 years….

Be nice if folks could practice self-restraint and just let em go for a year or two. See if they can make a faster come-back.

Like you said plenty of guys lined up to hunt doe antelope don’t care and just gonna shoot what they can. They don’t care about tomorrow.

 

[Erict]

...Be nice if folks could practice self-restraint and just let em go for a year or two. See if they can make a faster come-back.

Like you said plenty of guys lined up to hunt doe antelope don’t care and just gonna shoot what they can. They don’t care about tomorrow.

"Folks" shouldn't have to practice self-restraint and doing so does not ensure a faster come-back.

Reality - "Joe Sixpack" has waited 5 years to draw an antelope tag and will spend $3k+ on his first and possibly last WY antelope hunt. For only $34 more he can buy an antelope doe/fawn tag. How can you blame him for taking this opportunity that WY sold him? There is no "tomorrow" for him. WY F&G is responsible for "tomorrow" by managing tag allocations to meet population goals.

 

[Erict]

Just because I have a tag or just because one is issued doesn't mean it has to be filled.

I'll be getting tags in a local unit for doe pronghorn and pitching them again this year.

Been hunting that unit for 22 years and it's been in the skids for the last 10.

No, it doesn't HAVE to be filled, but if WY offers one, and if I buy it, I'm going to try to use it.

I don't understand how "pitching" tags helps, but maybe I don't fully understand WY tag allocations.

Say WY sets the goal of taking 80 doe/fawns from an area with a harvest rate of 80%, they issue 100 tags.

Say WY sets the goal of taking 80 doe/fawns from an area with a harvest rate of 40% (where this lower rate is from hunters "pitching" tags for years). To make up for the lower rate, they issue 200 tags.

In the end, about 80 tags should be filled in each scenario, but WY $ells an extra 100 tags in scenario 2.

 

[BuzzH]

"Folks" shouldn't have to practice self-restraint and doing so does not ensure a faster come-back.

Reality - "Joe Sixpack" has waited 5 years to draw an antelope tag and will spend $3k+ on his first and possibly last WY antelope hunt. For only $34 more he can buy an antelope doe/fawn tag. How can you blame him for taking this opportunity that WY sold him? There is no "tomorrow" for him. WY F&G is responsible for "tomorrow" by managing tag allocations to meet population goals.

What people choose to do with their tags is non of your concern....and between my wife and I we will pitch between 6 and 12 pronghorn tags.

They're doing like crap...and the gf doesn't always get it right. Lots of times tags are issued via social science instead of wildlife science.

Start attending some gf meetings and you'll see it first hand.

I've seen it first hand and not forced to guess.

 

[BuzzH]

No, it doesn't HAVE to be filled, but if WY offers one, and if I buy it, I'm going to try to use it.

I don't understand how "pitching" tags helps, but maybe I don't fully understand WY tag allocations.

Say WY sets the goal of taking 80 doe/fawns from an area with a harvest rate of 80%, they issue 100 tags.

Say WY sets the goal of taking 80 doe/fawns from an area with a harvest rate of 40% (where this lower rate is from hunters "pitching" tags for years). To make up for the lower rate, they issue 200 tags.

In the end, about 80 tags should be filled in each scenario, but WY $ells an extra 100 tags in scenario 2.

Not telling you what to do with your tag...and you won't be telling me what to do with mine.

For the record the area my wife and I drew 4 tags that we pitched, in last year was cut by 700 tags this year.

You going to tell me with that drastic of a tag swing, issuing 1100 tags last year was proper management?

That's shitty management plain and simple. Should never be that kind of tag swings.

 

[Rich M]

"Folks" shouldn't have to practice self-restraint and doing so does not ensure a faster come-back.

Reality - "Joe Sixpack" has waited 5 years to draw an antelope tag and will spend $3k+ on his first and possibly last WY antelope hunt. For only $34 more he can buy an antelope doe/fawn tag. How can you blame him for taking this opportunity that WY sold him? There is no "tomorrow" for him. WY F&G is responsible for "tomorrow" by managing tag allocations to meet population goals.

I stopped playing the point game about a week ago and booked a guided hunt for next year. Bucket list hunt. Not going back for antelope again. But im not gonna buy a doe tag.

If the numbers are down im confortable to enjoy watching them while hunting a buck. Dont have to shoot one to prove anything or satusfy a blood lust or get a measely 20# of meat. Can go somewhere and shoot whitetails by the coolerful if I need meat.

Antelope are a novelty or trophy hunt, its not a meat hunt for NR. $3k+ buys a lot of burger so dont try to justify meat on a trip like this. Folks hunt antelope cause they are a really neat animal.

As sportsmen, WE are responsible for the animals and should be willing to skip killing a doe or two if it will help the species. This shouldn’t be difficult to figure out.

 

[go_deep]

Was at the meeting in Cheyenne tonight. Rather sad that there is probably around 100k people that live in Laramie County, and I think 15 of us were at the meeting, embarrassing really that more sportsman can't find time to show up to something this important.

I voiced my concerns, observations, and opinions. Stayed after and talked to several people in more detail. I can't say I agree with everything that's proposed, but I filled out my online surveys, attended in person, and at the end of the day will leave it up to the professionals.

I'd strongly encourage anyone and everyone to fill out the online survey, and get yourself to an in person meeting!

 

[Fordguy]

In the areas of Wyoming that I traveled through last year, there were several large areas that had very few antelope compared to prior years. There were also several units that I passed through where antelope were everywhere. In one unit I counted between 150 and 200 just driving around looking at blm and state trust land for a few hours. ( No, I'm not sharing unit numbers. Lol) It was by no means an exhaustive search, and I spent time with binos every time I found a group. I only left the vehicle a few times to hike to the top of a rise.

How much do antelope spread out/disperse over the course of a year? Will the antelope in areas of high population spread out into the areas of lower density or do they tend to stick to the same territory year after year? I'll be the first to confess that there's a lot I don't know.

I think if I was close enough I'd do a lot of coyote hunting rather than antelope hunting in 2022.
Judging from the number of yotes I saw I'd guess the fawn recruitment numbers could use a little help.

 

[woodmoose]

I posted this would happen a year ago... So did several other members. Writing was on the wall and honestly they need to cut more tags imo.

Last September I drove through a part of Wyoming where I chased antelope with my bow 3 different times - where you used to see them everywhere I saw zero. Drove the public road through the ranch I used to hunt - saw zero antelope

made me so sad

I have max points for antelope (been lusting a Red Desert area hunt) but may keep waiting - or not, seems the areas I am looking at they actually raised the tag numbers

 

[Rich M]

Was at the meeting in Cheyenne tonight. Rather sad that there is probably around 100k people that live in Laramie County, and I think 15 of us were at the meeting, embarrassing really that more sportsman can't find time to show up to something this important.

I voiced my concerns, observations, and opinions. Stayed after and talked to several people in more detail. I can't say I agree with everything that's proposed, but I filled out my online surveys, attended in person, and at the end of the day will leave it up to the professionals.

I'd strongly encourage anyone and everyone to fill out the online survey, and get yourself to an in person meeting!

I live in an area with a couple million people within a 1.5 hr drive, its all houses pretty much. Anyway we got like 50 at a well published hunter meeting. Id say you guys did pretty good.

Most hunters buy a license and go hunt, few are interested in anything other than the rules staying the same.

 

[stonewall]

For whatever it’s worth, I submitted a comment telling them I’m in support of suspending doe tags until they bounce back.

I’ve always thought G/F depts issued tags based on population surveys, but I tend to agree that they are probably trying to balance keeping people happy.

Perhaps more of us should apply for tags and not fill them

 

[Jimss]

Unfortunately the population trend for antelope throughout most of Wyo is downward. This has been happening for several years. Obviously if the WG&F continues to offer a high number of doe tags the antelope population is going to continue the spiral downward. It may be wise to remain relatively conservative with doe tags until the population stabilizes?

Antelope tend to rebound very quickly with twins and triplet fawns. However, from what I've seen there has been decent fawn birth in the spring but the fawns aren't surviving. I've seen fawns in early spring but they vanish by fall. Not sure if this is due to disease, drought, predators, or something else...probably a combo of several things. Without healthy fawn survival the trend will continue downward!

Cutting doe tags obviously helps but if fawns aren't surviving the antelope population will continue to suffer!

 

[manitou1]

We have several (what used to be antelope "herds") around the house here. A few will come up on the porch and look into the patio door at times. In a good year, about all antelope does will have one or two fawns with them. Last spring, in the four herds I drive by daily I counted three (yes, only three) antelope fawns out of around seventy does (four herds on private fields over a three mile stretch) Poor nutrition from terrible range conditions for multiple years don't bid well for these animals.
Irrigated hay fields that used to EACH hold 100-200 antelope on any given day may hold 6-8 antelope now.

 

[go_deep]

We have several (what used to be antelope "herds") around the house here. A few will come up on the porch and look into the patio door at times. In a good year, about all antelope does will have one or two fawns with them. Last spring, in the four herds I drive by daily I counted three (yes, only three) antelope fawns out of around seventy does (four herds on private fields over a three mile stretch) Poor nutrition from terrible range conditions for multiple years don't bid well for these animals.
Irrigated hay fields that used to EACH hold 100-200 antelope on any given day may hold 6-8 antelope now.

I've seen several winter range areas this past year without a single Antelope on them.
Eating tags last year with the large license decrease this year sure seems like it was the right thing to do.

 

[wrgale]

They should reduce the number of outstate tags as well so residents have better odds of drawing one of these reduced tags. It has been getting tougher and tougher for us to draw a tag.

 

[npm352]

People can do whatever they want with their own tags. They can use them as toilet paper, a bookmark, or a firestarter.

In fact, this is right out of the playbook from the anti-hunters who drew several of the WY grizzly tags and had plans to delay it for subsequent tag holders. It is no different.

It doesn't bother me if someone throws a doe antelope tag in the trash, but I'll actually respect it when they dump a sheep or goat tag in the shredder because they feel Fish and Game isn't managing them just right...

 

[Rich M]

They should reduce the number of outstate tags as well so residents have better odds of drawing one of these reduced tags. It has been getting tougher and tougher for us to draw a tag.

Thanks for this - been waiting for a Res to say - hey, I want to kill every last one, it's not just the NR. At least we know you aren't a liar.

It doesn't bother me if someone throws a doe antelope tag in the trash, but I'll actually respect it when they dump a sheep or goat tag in the shredder because they feel Fish and Game isn't managing them just right...

Thumbs up!

 

[wrgale]

Rich M. I believe you misunderstood. I think that they should reduce the overall out-of-state tags even further to coincide with this season's reduction so that residents have more opportunities to hunt here. No one obviously wants to see the decimation of Wyoming's antelope population.

 

[Rich M]

Rich M. I believe you misunderstood. I think that they should reduce the overall out-of-state tags even further to coincide with this season's reduction so that residents have more opportunities to hunt here. No one obviously wants to see the decimation of Wyoming's antelope population.

Ah - you popped the balloon.

Can't say I disagree with you, I'm sure the pain will be shared.

Hoping for a couple of years with favorable conditions - at least some wet summers.

 

[Laramie]

I personally would like to see a cut and dry policy where if the herd is under objective, there are zero tags issued until it increases back over the objective. Remove money from the equation, let the biologists set quotas and seasons.