Anybody ever have this problem? I’m zerod at 200 yards and holding half moa groups there. But when I go to 400 I am hitting about 9 inches right..do you think this is due to scope misalignment? I have 2 piece pic bases. Could a 1 piece straighten this out? Any ideas?
Zero’d at 200 but at 400 shooting way right.
- Thread starter Jakeweb09
- Start date
Broz
WKR
are you dialing a turret or holding reticle?
- Thread Starter
- #3
Turret on Zeiss v4
PONYBOY
Lil-Rokslider
Scope might not be level is my guess. Try not using turret and holding over at 400. If same still happens, it sounds like a scope that isn't level.
5 shot group
WKR
Scope is canted. As you dial up, instead of your crosshairs moving vertically, they are moving at a diagonal. If your scope is level, you may be canting the rifle as you shoot, causing the same situation.
There is some good videos on YouTube on leveling your scope.
A cheap bubble level can help as well.
There is some good videos on YouTube on leveling your scope.
A cheap bubble level can help as well.
Any info/experience on how much slightly canting your rifle can effect POI at 400-500 yds? Recognize their are a lot of variables to this.
I was out shooting this weekend in field situations and was having some issues on a small steel target at 4-500yds. This was in high winds shooting at a steep angle so a lot going on but wasn’t paying close attention to rifle cant but caught it a few times where the rifle did seem canted. Hopefully info can help the OP as well.
Most people are not able to see a cant angle until it's at least 3 degrees or greater, at 100 yards it doesn't seem like much but it can easily push your impacts off target by several inches at 400 yards. It is possible to get the crosshairs of the scope leveled correctly but still have the scope mounted out of alignment with the rifle bore (as seen from above the rifle).
To check for the proper leveling of the scope's reticle, I use a carpenter's laser level (the kind that can project a set of crosshairs on the wall) as a target that I align the scope's reticle with. I make sure that the receiver and the scope are level using a small bubble level. Then I look through the scope and make sure that the scope's crosshairs are aligned with the projected crosshairs on the wall.
To ensure that the scope's tube is aligned with the rifle's bore, I stretch a string from the center of the muzzle to the center of the back end of the receiver. The string should be centered along both, the scope and the bore's center axis.
To check for the proper leveling of the scope's reticle, I use a carpenter's laser level (the kind that can project a set of crosshairs on the wall) as a target that I align the scope's reticle with. I make sure that the receiver and the scope are level using a small bubble level. Then I look through the scope and make sure that the scope's crosshairs are aligned with the projected crosshairs on the wall.
To ensure that the scope's tube is aligned with the rifle's bore, I stretch a string from the center of the muzzle to the center of the back end of the receiver. The string should be centered along both, the scope and the bore's center axis.
I took a class with accuracy 1st and rifle cant was one of the biggest points of consideration when shooting long-range, that and excellent data for the development of your custom ballistic algorithm. CANT is huge when shooting, snipershide has a good method for turret testing and tracking you can find on youtube. I also suggest getting a bubble level put on once that is dialed in.
One method we used was a bright orange construction line tied to a tree limb with a plumb bob. You then level your rifle and look through the scope. Your vertical reticle line should be parallel or cover up the construction line. If not, your scope is canted. the line needs to be at least 12' tall and sit back a spell so you can notice any difference.
The amount of deflection from your POA all depends on your height over bore. A ballistic computer like the free one on applied ballistics website can tell you what you could expect as far as how quickly your bullet is dropping for its time of flight. For instance, if at 100 yards your bullet drops 1" off the axis of bore (remember bullets fall immediately after leaving the barrel, they are no lift properties), and you zero at 100 yards, if you turn your gun 90 degrees to the right, you can expect to hit 1" to the right of your target and 1" low at 100 yds, 2" right and low at 200 yds, etc... with respect to how quickly your bullet is slowing down in a given environment.
- Banned
- #10
If you are hunting where a 200 + yard shot is an option, I'd zero at 200 yards. If you are hunting where you really aren't likely to take a shot that long, I'd zero in at 100 or 150. 300 yards is a hell of a long shot to take even zeroed at 200 yards.
I hunt mostly woods but do venture out west for pronghorn and zero all of my rifles at 150. My longest shot out west has been right about 200 to 225 yards. I'd guess my average distance has been between 150 and 175. During whitetail season at home, my average shot is usually right between 40 and 50 yards.
I hunt mostly woods but do venture out west for pronghorn and zero all of my rifles at 150. My longest shot out west has been right about 200 to 225 yards. I'd guess my average distance has been between 150 and 175. During whitetail season at home, my average shot is usually right between 40 and 50 yards.
There's another company, Green Eye Tactical, instructed by a 1st SFOD - Delta guy, who is an advocate of customized zeroes based on your shooting platform. Everyone's shooting different ammo in different barrels with different scopes and all of that matters. His fundamental rifle class and zero clinic is eye-opening and really revelatory in understanding what's in your hands.
I'd recommend that if you have a scope with turrets, and are comfortable dialing in, or have something like a Horus 59 or Tremor 3 reticle, that you not do an exotic zero, but rather something where you can group at sub MOA consistently and get a very solid zero, IE 100 yards with a 1" group. Then true your drop charts out to distance at the subsonic transition range to confirm drops. You can then use something like Accuracy 1st Whiz Wheel and a simple Kestrel meter (not the 5700 but muuuch cheaper) to get your Density Altitude and you're good to go, save for wind calls.
If you have a scope that is not dialable, like some Accupoint's, Aimpoints, Eoetch's, or something similar, I'd investigate Green Eye's customized zero processes. For instance, on my red dot Eotech Rifle, my zero allows for me to hold center on an 8" vital zone all the way out to 320 yards and not have to worry about any elevation hold whatsoever. I can ring standard IPSC silhouettes out to 550 yards no problem all day. The presentation of the rifle to target and breaking the shot is extremely efficient and smooth.
I'd recommend that if you have a scope with turrets, and are comfortable dialing in, or have something like a Horus 59 or Tremor 3 reticle, that you not do an exotic zero, but rather something where you can group at sub MOA consistently and get a very solid zero, IE 100 yards with a 1" group. Then true your drop charts out to distance at the subsonic transition range to confirm drops. You can then use something like Accuracy 1st Whiz Wheel and a simple Kestrel meter (not the 5700 but muuuch cheaper) to get your Density Altitude and you're good to go, save for wind calls.
If you have a scope that is not dialable, like some Accupoint's, Aimpoints, Eoetch's, or something similar, I'd investigate Green Eye's customized zero processes. For instance, on my red dot Eotech Rifle, my zero allows for me to hold center on an 8" vital zone all the way out to 320 yards and not have to worry about any elevation hold whatsoever. I can ring standard IPSC silhouettes out to 550 yards no problem all day. The presentation of the rifle to target and breaking the shot is extremely efficient and smooth.
5 shot group
WKR
It will vary on your bullet and fps, but for my 30-06 shooting 165gr Barnes ttsx at ~2700 fps, a 5mph wind at 500 yards is about a 1 ½ moa adjustment (or about 7½ inches) of wind drift.
I would definetly check scope level but also try re-shooting at known ranges with little or no wind and see if your problem goes away.
- Thread Starter
- #14
Thanks guys for all the replies! I mounted using a couple bubble levels that I had laying around but I’m going to go get a wheeler set and maybe a solid gun vice to be safe. I’ll check and adjust. Then double check with the plum bob method. I am pretty sure I’m not canting, at least very very little as I’m shooting off of a tripod with a rear bag and it’s very stable, but maybe to be safe I’ll try one of the on scope levels. As I’ve never had one and it couldn’t hurt huh? I’m new into shooting longer ranges as I’ve always been an archery hunter but this year I’m planning on trying out a rifle mule deer hunt and want an effective range of 400. Which I feel is easily achievable. I’m getting solid 1/2 moa groups even a couple at about .4 at 200 yards. But just need to figure this little issue out to get dialed in! Appreciate all your insights!
5 shot group
WKR
Another thing to do is make sure you use two of the same bubble levels and have one on the frame of the rifle and one on the scope. Then, use one of the hash marks on the tube as the keystone so to speak. Sometimes we think the bubbles in the middle but it can be ever so slightly off. This way you are using a hard reference point. Both the frame of the rifle and the scope will technically be canted at exactly the same inclination which means they are parallel to each other.
Also, i've used the playing card deck method when seating the scope in the rings. Take playing cards and place them under the bottom of the scope, which is typically flat. Then tighten down your scope rings using the x method, this will assure a flush seating of the scope to the mount. There are youtube videos of this.
One last thing, check to see if there is inconsistent wear, or ring markings on the tube of your scope, this could allude to improper seating (axial shift) from your scope tube to your bore axis.
Also, i've used the playing card deck method when seating the scope in the rings. Take playing cards and place them under the bottom of the scope, which is typically flat. Then tighten down your scope rings using the x method, this will assure a flush seating of the scope to the mount. There are youtube videos of this.
One last thing, check to see if there is inconsistent wear, or ring markings on the tube of your scope, this could allude to improper seating (axial shift) from your scope tube to your bore axis.
JigStick
WKR
Lap your rings too
msstate56
Lil-Rokslider
Might want to consider wind. Even when you think it’s dead calm, there still might be some wind down range. Follow the methods listed above for checking scope cant. I’ve used, plumb bobs, feeler gauges under the turret, 36” level down range. They all work. I use at least 2 methods just to double check. I also recommend getting a level for your scope. You might feel level, but it’s very easy to cant the rifle one you get behind it. If you are comfortable dialing your turret, use a 100 yard zero and then dial off of that. Using a 100 yard zero, everything will always be below center. Never have to worry about holding under. There is a reason all PRS/NRL guys run a 100 yard zero. And they shoot small steel out to 1200 yards.
- Thread Starter
- #19
Quick update. I’ve torn the scope off. Swapped to a 1 piece base and got a precision scope mounting kit from wheeler. Problem is there’s no true flat spot on the action. So would you say mounting the base and leveling off of that will be good? Or do you believe that’s not good enough? And if so any suggestions?
Alignment of scope to rifle won't be the issue. As the others have said, it's likely canting. Have a scope bubble and ensure that it is correctly aligned with true level. This way you know that each shotnis taken with the scope in a truly level position. Physics would tell you that it actually doesn't matter if the scope and rifle action are in alignment.
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