Easton vs Black Eagle

[MattB]

Just keep in mid that a lower gpi correlates with durability. Guys get hung up on FOC based on Ashby's work, but remember his #1 rule for penetration is the structural integrity of the arrow while FOC is #3.

 

[Brendan]

Most important of anything is accuracy. When I've compared an arrow with higher FOC to one with lower, it shoots better and more consistently for me. That's testing bare shafts and broadheads at longer ranges between different arrow builds - the higher FOC arrow has been more forgiving. Mflood mentioned this a little above, but If you want to get into the physics of it, and look at aerodynamics, center of gravity, center of pressure, etc. - there is an aerodynamic stability benefit to more FOC.

BUT, you absolutely can not just load up the tip of an arrow. First, logistically you have to be able to do it. What components are available? Second, loading up the tip weakens your dynamic spine, so the arrow has to potentially be stiffer to support the extra tip weight.

So - more practical. I've been shooting an Easton axis 300, cut to around 27", 50 grain brass insert, 125 grain tip. Total arrow weight in the 505 grain range. I also shot a GT Pierce 250 with 170 grains up front, total arrow weight around 490 gr. I feel like there's room to improve on the Axis, and hated the insert / outsert options for the Pierce. So, the comparable arrow to the Axis I'm going to switch to and test this year is the BE Rampage 300, 27", 75 grain brass insert, 9 grain footer, 125 grain broadhead in the 495gr range with more FOC. From what I've read - people aren't unhappy with the Rampage's durability, and the higher FOC should be a benefit, and I'm still in the total arrow weight range and arrow speed range I want to be in.

 

[NDGuy]

I suppose now that I checked out the Easton Axis they seem more comparable to the BE Deep Impacts. Both are 100% carbon and run 9 and 9.7 gpi respectively.

Some good information thanks all for replying. I still am torn on the decision but like you said, seems I can't go wrong with either.

 

[mfllood3800]

I would also steer shy of light weight set ups. I used o be the speed guy. Til I had a high shoulder shot on a matrixing deer.

The beauty of todays products is you just swap the broad heads out for heavier.
I now run a 150 gr head.
If desire I can drop that to a 125 and still be around 475 or what ever it is.
I have a 28.5 DL and a 372 IBO bow.
So I can wiggle around a lot on my set ups.
Some guys use a 300-320 IBO and have a short DL where they are already at 250-260 fps range, with a 350 arrow.
No one wants to use a 350 arrow right?
This is where sometimes the lighter shafts come into play. You can get it to where you need with more options vs a heavy shaf that no matter what you do, even with an 85 gr head you are already at a weight that limits your desired fps range.

I have a step-son who is getting into hunting. He has a 26 dl.
I am going to get some Sugru
Amazon.com: Sugru Moldable Glue - Original Formula - Black & White 8-Pack: Home Improvement

And build up his grip a little to try and get a bit more draw length for him. He has an old hoyt someone sold him. Its slow to start. But its all he can get.
I figure if I can add 1/2" or maybe more if it will allow, I can increase his dl by putting bow further forward thus yielding him hopefully 3-5 more fps.
Right now with light weight arrows he is at like 245 fps. He wants to elk hunt. This concerns me, so I cut some of my old Ximpacts down for him, loaded the frt to a weight he can utilize and still have speed and KE. I'm trying to get him to 250 with a 400 gr set up.

My concern is my spine is 250 and with these ximp cut so short he could run a 400 spine. But will see how they tune

 

[mfllood3800]

I keep telling him trad guys shoot way slower. Its about practicing, shot placement and getting close with his needed set ups. We live in a town with both hoyt and pse dealer. So there is the "talk" about speed bows a lot, and him being new, he feeds on a lot of this.
I am encouraging him to find the happy medium and get good at getting accurate

 

[NDGuy]

I would also steer shy of light weight set ups. I used o be the speed guy. Til I had a high shoulder shot on a matrixing deer.

The beauty of todays products is you just swap the broad heads out for heavier.
I now run a 150 gr head.
If desire I can drop that to a 125 and still be around 475 or what ever it is.
I have a 28.5 DL and a 372 IBO bow.
So I can wiggle around a lot on my set ups.
Some guys use a 300-320 IBO and have a short DL where they are already at 250-260 fps range, with a 350 arrow.
No one wants to use a 350 arrow right?
This is where sometimes the lighter shafts come into play. You can get it to where you need with more options vs a heavy shaf that no matter what you do, even with an 85 gr head you are already at a weight that limits your desired fps range.

I have a step-son who is getting into hunting. He has a 26 dl.
I am going to get some Sugru
Amazon.com: Sugru Moldable Glue - Original Formula - Black & White 8-Pack: Home Improvement

And build up his grip a little to try and get a bit more draw length for him. He has an old hoyt someone sold him. Its slow to start. But its all he can get.
I figure if I can add 1/2" or maybe more if it will allow, I can increase his dl by putting bow further forward thus yielding him hopefully 3-5 more fps.
Right now with light weight arrows he is at like 245 fps. He wants to elk hunt. This concerns me, so I cut some of my old Ximpacts down for him, loaded the frt to a weight he can utilize and still have speed and KE. I'm trying to get him to 250 with a 400 gr set up.

My concern is my spine is 250 and with these ximp cut so short he could run a 400 spine. But will see how they tune

Am I reading correctly that because I do not have a long enough draw, I should be nervous about shooting an elk? With my metrics and using the backcountry archery calculator, BE Deep Impact or FMJ arrows will be running around 250-260 fps with a 400-430 gr arrow.

 

[mfllood3800]

Am I reading correctly that because I do not have a long enough draw, I should be nervous about shooting an elk? With my metrics and using the backcountry archery calculator, BE Deep Impact or FMJ arrows will be running around 250-260 fps with a 400-430 gr arrow.

No not in my opinion.
As I stated the trad guys shoot way slower.
That's my point - but get closer, and perfect shot placement. We all should do this any way its why we bow hunt vs rifle right? The up close experience and challenge of archery.
250-260 with 400-430 set up is fine.
Its when guys drop so low in speed and use wrong things like expandables, poor quality b/heads etc...

My opinion says whatthe BAC you used is getting you to a decent place at 430 with 250 fps- nothing wrong with that. I would take that over 260 fps and a 400 gr arrow personally.
I would also look at a small d loop, shorter release, and maybe even cheat a little on anchor point further back than ideal, if the shot groups can be consistent. All sorts of small things can help get set up closer to "ideal" ranges.
But remember trad guys do this every year with a whole lot less.

I just feel getting into a optimal range of ideas increases success rate and allows for more variables to play into your favor vs against you.

My step son will be in the 250 fps and a very low 400 gr set up. That's why I keep telling him, trad guys do this all the time. Get a heavier set up, practice placement and go have fun.

My first 2 elk and 3 deer were with a 389 grain set up. Some at 82 yards, several at 65-70 yards. My speeds were 330 ish.
I soon realized what guys way smarter than me were saying.
The high shoulder shot sold me on their opinions. Plus a slower bow is easier to tune, quieter and a bit more forgiving.

 

[mfllood3800]

Many leaders in the archery industry are stating the ideal speed range is around 270-280. This is from guys who aren't making money on selling products. They also use the heavier set ups like around 500 grains, some lower some higher.
The point is this is the ideal range.
But below this range works too.

 

[mfllood3800]

The desire of the heavier set ups with maintaining speed for KE, allow more shot choices.
Perhaps a frontal shot or quartering to at 35-45 yards is now doable, where with a lower arrow weight and KE loss, that would need to be at a closer range.

Perhaps a broad side shot at 80 yards with a 500 gr arrow at 280 fps is ok, but for a slower 250 fps and a lighter ke arrow of 400 grins, that distance would need to be reduced to like 60 yards.

Just some examples of what the thought process is with heavier faster vs lighter slower.
It can still be done, but with different steps involved.

I hope this helps clear this confusion.
Others have different opinions on all of this as well.
You will develop your own after a few hunts any way.

 

[Brendan]

I suppose now that I checked out the Easton Axis they seem more comparable to the BE Deep Impacts..

Not really comparable. Axis is a 5mm or 6mm and you can run brass HITs up to 75 grains that take standard broadheads. Deep Impact is a 4mm and requires outserts for standard size broadheads or Deep 6 inserts for Deep 6 heads.

Axis is a comparable arrow to the BE Rampage in Diameter, but the rampage is lighter for the same spine. Shoot the Axis if you want a higher GPI, Rampage if you want a slightly lower GPI.

 

[BWG13]

I have nearly identical stats as you (26" DL 66lb draw) and have had great luck with the Black Eagle Deep Impacts. Not sure what spine you're looking to go with, but I shoot 400 spine (8.6 GPI) DI cut 24 1/8" carbon to carbon with the standard BE outsert, 100 grain points, 7" wrap and 3 Blazer vanes and my arrows finish at 388gr. This setup gives me a FOC of just over 16%. I've been testing out 125gr points to get a heavier arrow and it moves my FOC up over 17%, but I haven't shot them enough yet to decide if that's the route I wanna go. According to the BEA website, if I move up to 125gr points, ideally I should be shooting 350 spine.

I recently bought some Carbon Express Maxima Red SD 250 spine to try out, which are a similar arrow to the Easton Axis, and I much prefer the Deep Impacts. In fact, I'm looking to sell the SDs to fund more Deep Impacts.

I also have a MGB Ascent 5 pin sighted out to 110 yds and I shoot more accurately with the Deep Impacts at longer distances (past 70 yards is long range for me). Not sure if it's the FOC increase, smaller diameter, or something going on mentally with me, but I consistently hold tighter groups with the DI.

The penetration is also noticeable for me. I get with the DI vs the Red SD is easily 4-6" more in my Rhinehart target and in a regular stacked foam target, the Deep Impacts will bury themselves up to the Blazer vanes. I haven't killed anything using the Carbon Express, but have shot a bull elk at 37yds using the DI and had a complete pass through. Found the arrow 20+ yds behind the bull stuck in a small pine tree. A lot of people, myself included, will say it's not an apples-to-apples comparison when looking at penetration on targets vs an animal, but I feel more confident with the DI arrows.

Another plus I have found is how tough the DI arrows are. Several times (OK, twice) I have forgot to "zero" my sight after shooting at 100yds and have accidentally shot an arrow into my stuccoed shed I use as a backstop. Ive also misjudge a target at the local range and shot low into the 2x4 frame. None of the arrows were damaged, only the outserts. To me, if I only have to replace an outsert vs trashing an entire arrow, that's a big plus.

 

[5MilesBack]

I would shoot the Axis Match arrows with the brass HIT's 10 out of 10 times over the FMJ's. And that's not because of the greater FOC that it would give. It's because I didn't like having to "be careful" with the FMJ's. I don't care what people say, from my own experience the FMJ's WILL stop spinning true. And it wasn't from pulling the arrows. It was the last 6-8" closest to the insert that would wobble........and it didn't take long for that to happen to them. Heck, I have carbon arrows that are 10 years old that have been shot 1000's of times that still spin true.

 

[Trial153]

Some of the answers are making my head hurt. More is being made out of this then needs to be.

 

[justin davis]

Deep impacts and Axis aren’t really apples to apples. Different size arrow and different components.

With that said I’m a fan of micro diameter arrows. Been shooting the Goldtip pierce arrows and really like them.

 

[NDGuy]

Some of the answers are making my head hurt. More is being made out of this then needs to be.

Same. I'm tempted to just throw a dart at a checkerboard. I know I am overthinking lol just wanted some general thoughts. It does seem I will be stuck around 250 fps shooting the Deep Impacts or the FMJs over the Axis or Rampages shooting closer to 270 fps.

 

[NDGuy]

broadheads. Deep Impact is a 4mm and requires outserts for standard size broadheads or Deep 6 inserts for Deep 6 heads.

Ah gotchya I will have to check with Blackovis about which inserts/outserts they put in the DIs if I do the custom arrow builder.

 

[NDGuy]

I have nearly identical stats as you (26" DL 66lb draw) and have had great luck with the Black Eagle Deep Impacts. Not sure what spine you're looking to go with

Thanks for the info man. According to their chart I would be a 350 spine. With similar stats why did you go with 400 spine?

 

[5MilesBack]

Same. I'm tempted to just throw a dart at a checkerboard.

Ya, but you can narrow down what's on the checkerboard to start with by knowing what you're getting into with each option and component within those options.

Or you can do what a lot of us have already done for ourselves.......spend a lot of money with trial and error.......and learn on your own.

 

[NDGuy]

Ya, but you can narrow down what's on the checkerboard to start with by knowing what you're getting into with each option and component within those options.

Hence my post haha good info but holy I did not anticipate this much detail. I think I do have it narrowed down to the FMJ, Axis, Deep Impact, or Renegade Arrows.

I read a lot of stuff and I can't seem to get that "perfect" 270-280 fps w/420+gr arrows due to my stats. At least according to the arrow calculator ArcheryCalc – Backcountry Bowhunting. I ain't getting any taller, longer or stronger anytime soon so not sure what I can do but just pick a arrow and shoot it. Even if I got stronger, I like being able to comfortably pull my bow back in any situation which is why I want to stay at 65lbs.

 

[92xj]

I'd highly recommend buying 3 of whatever you want to compare, build them to your specs, shoot them to see the grouping and if your bow likes them, then start running the numbers. I just went through this after hours and hours of research online. I decided the only way to really get the best out of my choice was to buy and shoot. Yeah, it's more expensive but worth it in the end knowing you picked based off your own numbers and how you shoot the arrow. You can take everyone's advise, buy the best of the best according to them (not saying anyone is wrong here) and shoot them in your backyard, miss the target, confidence thrown out the window and you are back to square one researching online because your bow or your shooting didn't like the arrow. Buy a few, build, shoot, decide.

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/archery/92820-arrow-testing-pick.html