Kimber Montana vs. Tikka T3x Superlite vs. Savage 16 LWH (308)

[matthewmt]

I just recently acquired a T3 compact in 308. Im really liking it so far. The shorter length of pull is perfect for me. I can shoulder the rifle on top of my back pack shoulder strap and still easily get my eye close enough to the scope.

I like the shorter barrel as well as the option to add the spacer for standard length stock. I would go tikka CTR if I could afford to.

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[AK Troutbum]

From your profile picture, I'd honestly figured you'd be the type of person to chuck a spear at a big game animal. Slightly disappointed.

Maybe, if I ever make it to Africa.


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[AK Troutbum]

From your profile picture, I'd honestly figured you'd be the type of person to chuck a spear at a big game animal. Slightly disappointed.

Ok, your starting to get in my head. I have killed several deer with stick and string, maybe it's time to check out the whole spear thing. Alright, the wheels are spinning. If it happens, you'll be credited with the inspiration.


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[Rorschach]

Stick and string??

 

[Jimbob]

Stick and string??

bow

 

[Rorschach]

Wow - I am dumb.

 

[greyghostnw]

look at the christiansen arms ridgeline as well. a lot of gun for the $... mine shoots 1/4 -1/2 moa with hand loads in a 300 rum. buying a .308 win for my boy.

 

[aclawrence]

I saw a Savage 11 youth rifle in 243 for only $275 yesterday in one of the local pawn shops. My son is only 3 but man it would be perfect in a few years.

 

[Formidilosus]

The 200-300 I shoot now annually is 10 times more than I would shoot during my teens and early 20s. Is it enough? It seems to be for the ranges I shoot. But does everyone need to toss 70k shots down range in order to be soon as a responsible hunter?


IDK maybe I am reckless by only practing that much and limiting my shots to 400 yards. Maybe I am lucky to not wound game given how little I practice compared to some or even most? Truth is I really don't think it's that difficult for anyone to kill big game animals if the are set up in good field positions and keep the ranges within 400 yards

The less you desire or require your margin of error to be, the more one needs to shoot. It takes about 2 days and 500 rounds of ammo to teach an average hunter field positions, correct use of dialing and holding, and semi decent wind calls out to 400-600 yards. At the end of the two days most can absolutely crush 10in plates from field positions under time constraints in sub 10mph wind out to around 450 +\-. But shooting is perishable. Thankfully people can do whatever they want with regards to practice.

I guess I am not sure what level one has to shoot to not be viewed as "skipping" the rifle skill part of it. What do you believe one needs to shoot every year to be seen as a responsible shooter. How many shots should I be taking to practice at before it's viewed that I am not leaving it to chance.

Its different for everyone. In general for someone with a solid baseline skill- somewhere around 50 rounds a month shooting from field positions. Granted it's all in their desires- how far do they want to be truly competent, how fast do they want to be able to do it, etc. As you've said it doesn't take all that much skill or practice to kill BG at 100-200 yards, especially if that person doesn't mind missing some opportunities. On the other hand, if a person wants to hardly ever miss an opportunity, and wants to be able to cleanly kill animals at 600+, it takes quite a bit more. Both from the person and the gear.

 

[Rorschach]

An update...

I put everything together tonight. That thing is silly light! Everything being scaled to the size of the 308 case, the whole rig seems like a toy!

Optic seems like it's a keeper. Being mounted in those low Talley's, the cheekweld is incredible (I'm used to more of an AR teeth-weld)!

Potential issue I've found with the 90deg bolt throw is that the handle can be made to contact the eye piece of the Vortex (Razor HD LH 3-15x42) by pulling it almost all the way rearward and applying lateral force (there's a fair amount of wiggle when it's at it's fullest rearward extent). It's a little disappointing, but oh well at this point. I'll just have to remember to not sling the bolt back with vigor and muck the scope's finish.

I also have it as far forward in the rings as it'll go, with the rear ring being turned so that it allows a little further forward positioning of the scope, and that seems about right for me with where my head usually ends up in the prone. So, it's right, but there's not much room for adjustment of necessary (don't think it'll be necessary though).

I've got about 6 or 7 different factory hunting ammo options I'd like to try at the range tomorrow morning. I'll try and report back results if anything is impressive.

 

[luke moffat]

The less you desire or require your margin of error to be, the more one needs to shoot. It takes about 2 days and 500 rounds of ammo to teach an average hunter field positions, correct use of dialing and holding, and semi decent wind calls out to 400-600 yards. At the end of the two days most can absolutely crush 10in plates from field positions under time constraints in sub 10mph wind out to around 450 +\-. But shooting is perishable. Thankfully people can do whatever they want with regards to practice.










Its different for everyone. In general for someone with a solid baseline skill- somewhere around 50 rounds a month shooting from field positions. Granted it's all in their desires- how far do they want to be truly competent, how fast do they want to be able to do it, etc. As you've said it doesn't take all that much skill or practice to kill BG at 100-200 yards, especially if that person doesn't mind missing some opportunities. On the other hand, if a person wants to hardly ever miss an opportunity, and wants to be able to cleanly kill animals at 600+, it takes quite a bit more. Both from the person and the gear.

Agreed!! I likely will never shoot 600 plus rounds a year. Though I did get 65 rounds in 2 days ago if you count .223 as part of it so maybe 2017 will be different. I don't feel I miss many opportunities stalking to get within 300 yards of most animals in most of the varied terrain here in Alaska in general is not difficult if one is patient. That said I do have a SWFA SS HD coming for one of my lunker rifles that'll likely go 10 pounds with a bipod that should be fun to play with reliable turrets just to see what all the hub bun is about. I have no desire to shoot anything at 600+ yards at game though as I can live with letting stuff walk if I can't get into my limited range. Somehow our freezers our still full with mainly shooting nearly all our game at less than half that range is does most people.

 

[Rorschach]

Went to the range this morning to try and ascertain what kind of accuracy is attainable with the Montana. This is straight out of the box with the above-mentioned optic/rings mounted.

Gotta say, not impressed so far, but I'll give it another trip or two to perform before I try the Tikka.

Procedure:

Shot several different brands and types of hunting ammunition, all at 100yds, ~35degF, no wind. I'd shoot a 3-round group with about 10sec between shots, then let it cool for 7min between strings, load up three rds of the next type of ammo, and repeat.

The front of the rifle was rested on a sandbag, and the rear was simply held into the pocket of the shoulder by hand (did not use the rice-filled sock pictured to rest the butt on).

While being allowed to cool between strings, the rifle was placed in a muzzle-up orientation to possibly aid cooling (chimney effect, possibly - photos below).​

Types of ammo (all 308win):

- Federal Fusion 180gr
- Federal Fusion 165gr
- Federal Fusion 150gr
- Hornady Superformance SST 150gr
- Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X 178gr
- Remington Hog Hammer 168gr
- Hornady Full Boar 165gr​

Observations:

- One thing I noticed is that the length-of-pull is way different than what I'm used to (AR stock fully extended). Feels much shorter, but the LOP measurement seems to be ~13.5" or so, exactly what was in the specs for the rifle (thought I might have gotten the wrong stock on it at first or something). The optic is mounted as far forward as it will go in those rings, which seems about right for offhand/upright shooting (affords a very comfortable and natural head-position when held in field positions).

- The optic and mounts mated very nicely with the contour of barrel(photo below); for my head geometry, the cheek weld is perfect. Super low. Haven't had a rifle that fits this nicely in a while.

- I simply ran some oily patches down the bore afterwards - i.e., not even a 'cleaning' - and every one of them came out black. I've never had a barrel, even a brand new one, be that filthy after ~30rds. Means nothing to me; just an observation.​

Links to other range sessions:
Kimber 1 (1/27/17)
Kimber 2 (1/29/17)
Kimber 3 (1/31/17)
Tikka 1 (2/4/17)
Tikka 2 (2/6/17)
Tikka 3 (2/8/17)
Kimber 4 (2/9/17)
Kimber 5 (2/14/17)

Photos attached below.

Results on target:

Objective clearance:

Rifle cooling between strings:

 

[Linkovich]

A little late to the party, but for what its worth:
(I didn't read all 9 pages so sorry if some of this is redundant)

I've got a Tikka T3 superlite in 270 and Savage 16 LWH in 308. I love both of these guns and both are great shooters.

The savage shoots lights out with 150gr Honardy SST. It pretty easily shoots 1/2" with a good rest...which is kind of mind blowing to me for factory ammo and the price point the guns at. I really like the 20" barrel on the Savage as well. The fit and finish however are little lacking on the savage. The bolt can be pretty tight and sometimes it feels like its binding against the top of the magazine. It can be a little finicky when trying to feed a new round out of the magazine as well. The fit of the magazine and stock also leaves a little to be desired.

I've got way more money tied up in the Tikka. It shoots 1" pretty easily with 130gr silvertips and the bolt is ridiculously smooth. Factory fit and finish are nicer than the Savage, plus I've changed out a decent bit of stuff on mine so overall it feels like a much more solid gun.

If I had to pick just one it would be a hard choice, but I think I would end up going with the Tikka for how smooth the action is if nothing else.

On a side note, I've never owned a Montana but a couple buddies have them in 308 and they love them. I've shot them before and they seem like well built guns.

For reference:
Savage is stock with Talley Lightweights and VX-1 4-12x40 LR and tips the scales at 6lb 11oz with a full magazine

Tikka I slimmed the stock, bolt fluted, bolt handle skeletonized, Mountain Tactical bottom metal & bolt shroud, limbsaver, 16 Bore Talley Lightweights, Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 and weighs in at 7lbs even with a full magazine

 

[Linkovich]

Forgot to mention the only thing that I don't really like about the Tikka compared to the Kimber and Savage is that it doesn't have a 3 position safety. Definitely not a deal breaker but the peace of mind is nice.

 

[Eagle]

A little late to the party, but for what its worth:
(I didn't read all 9 pages so sorry if some of this is redundant)

I've got a Tikka T3 superlite in 270 and Savage 16 LWH in 308. I love both of these guns and both are great shooters.

The savage shoots lights out with 150gr Honardy SST. It pretty easily shoots 1/2" with a good rest...which is kind of mind blowing to me for factory ammo and the price point the guns at. I really like the 20" barrel on the Savage as well. The fit and finish however are little lacking on the savage. The bolt can be pretty tight and sometimes it feels like its binding against the top of the magazine. It can be a little finicky when trying to feed a new round out of the magazine as well. The fit of the magazine and stock also leaves a little to be desired.

I've got way more money tied up in the Tikka. It shoots 1" pretty easily with 130gr silvertips and the bolt is ridiculously smooth. Factory fit and finish are nicer than the Savage, plus I've changed out a decent bit of stuff on mine so overall it feels like a much more solid gun.

If I had to pick just one it would be a hard choice, but I think I would end up going with the Tikka for how smooth the action is if nothing else.

On a side note, I've never owned a Montana but a couple buddies have them in 308 and they love them. I've shot them before and they seem like well built guns.

For reference:
Savage is stock with Talley Lightweights and VX-1 4-12x40 LR and tips the scales at 6lb 11oz with a full magazine

Tikka I slimmed the stock, bolt fluted, bolt handle skeletonized, Mountain Tactical bottom metal & bolt shroud, limbsaver, 16 Bore Talley Lightweights, Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 and weighs in at 7lbs even with a full magazine

Who did your bolt work?

 

[GKPrice]

A little late to the party, but for what its worth:
(I didn't read all 9 pages so sorry if some of this is redundant)

I've got a Tikka T3 superlite in 270 and Savage 16 LWH in 308. I love both of these guns and both are great shooters.

The savage shoots lights out with 150gr Honardy SST. It pretty easily shoots 1/2" with a good rest...which is kind of mind blowing to me for factory ammo and the price point the guns at. I really like the 20" barrel on the Savage as well. The fit and finish however are little lacking on the savage. The bolt can be pretty tight and sometimes it feels like its binding against the top of the magazine. It can be a little finicky when trying to feed a new round out of the magazine as well. The fit of the magazine and stock also leaves a little to be desired.

I've got way more money tied up in the Tikka. It shoots 1" pretty easily with 130gr silvertips and the bolt is ridiculously smooth. Factory fit and finish are nicer than the Savage, plus I've changed out a decent bit of stuff on mine so overall it feels like a much more solid gun.

If I had to pick just one it would be a hard choice, but I think I would end up going with the Tikka for how smooth the action is if nothing else.

On a side note, I've never owned a Montana but a couple buddies have them in 308 and they love them. I've shot them before and they seem like well built guns.

For reference:
Savage is stock with Talley Lightweights and VX-1 4-12x40 LR and tips the scales at 6lb 11oz with a full magazine

Tikka I slimmed the stock, bolt fluted, bolt handle skeletonized, Mountain Tactical bottom metal & bolt shroud, limbsaver, 16 Bore Talley Lightweights, Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 and weighs in at 7lbs even with a full magazine

How'd you "slim down the stock" ?

 

[GKPrice]

Went to the range this morning to try and ascertain what kind of accuracy is attainable with the Montana. This is straight out of the box with the above-mentioned optic/rings mounted.

Gotta say, not impressed so far, but I'll give it another trip or two to perform before I try the Tikka.

Procedure:

Shot several different brands and types of hunting ammunition. I'd shoot a 3-round group with about 10sec between shots, then let it cool for 7min between strings, load up three rds of the next type of ammo, and repeat.

The front of the rifle was rested on a sandbag, and the rear was simply held into the pocket of the shoulder by hand (did not use the rice-filled sock pictured to rest the butt on).

While being allowed to cool between strings, the rifle was placed in a muzzle-up orientation to possibly aid cooling (chimney effect, possibly - photos below).​

Types of ammo (all 308win):

- Federal Fusion 180gr
- Federal Fusion 165gr
- Federal Fusion 150gr
- Hornady Superformance SST 150gr
- Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X 178gr
- Remington Hog Hammer 168gr
- Hornady Full Boar 165gr​

Observations:

- One thing I noticed is that the length-of-pull is way different than what I'm used to (AR stock fully extended). Feels much shorter, but the LOP measurement seems to be ~13.5" or so, exactly what was in the specs for the rifle (thought I might have gotten the wrong stock on it at first or something). The optic is mounted as far forward as it will go in those rings, which seems about right for offhand/upright shooting (affords a very comfortable and natural head-position when held in field positions).

- The optic and mounts mated very nicely with the contour of barrel(photo below); for my head geometry, the cheek weld is perfect. Super low. Haven't had a rifle that fits this nicely in a while.​

Photos attached below.

Results on target:

Objective clearance:

Rifle cooling between strings:

It has been my experience with multiple Montana's that somewhere between 50-70 rounds it will just begin to shoot tighter groups - Also, take a look at the "Montana tinkering" youtube video paying attention to the action screw torque specs

 

[Linkovich]

Who did your bolt work?

Long Rifles Inc did the bolt fluting. They did a good job and had a quick turn around. I had a local machine shop do the bolt handle, I just took them a picture of a Mountain Ascent bolt handle and asked them to do something similar.

GUNSMITHING SERVICES: Tikka-T3 Bolt Fluting – LRI Outlet Store

 

[Rorschach]

Hope so - I'm going to do the same experiment next time I get an extended time at the range and see if I get comparable results.

I will note that I did just a little bit of cleaning, and the barrel was filthier than any barrel I've ever cleaned with that number of rounds down it before. Wow.

 

[Linkovich]

How'd you "slim down the stock" ?

Sanded down the goofy palm swell, the factory texturing and contour lines, then did some painting. Probably takes away from the rigidity but the gun still shoots better than I can. Makes the factory stock more tolerable until I can swing a B&C or McMillan replacement. Here's the write I used:

Another Slimmed Tikka T3 | Hunting Rifles | 24hourcampfire