trophyhill
WKR
so there are guys who bugle and guys who cow call and guys that do both. and guys that rarely if ever call. how do you recognize a calling situation and when is it best to just shut up and let the situation develope?
Elk; When to Call & When not to
- Thread starter trophyhill
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trophyhill
WKR
Ok let's get situational
the sun is breaking and you call down into a steep basin from the ridge above with a locate bugle and a bull answers your call with a bugle from the bottom of the drainage. Pretty common scenario. It's September 6th. I'm sure you all can think of many other situations to be discussed
the sun is breaking and you call down into a steep basin from the ridge above with a locate bugle and a bull answers your call with a bugle from the bottom of the drainage. Pretty common scenario. It's September 6th. I'm sure you all can think of many other situations to be discussed 
Drelk
FNG
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2012
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- 81
This is purely my own observations. In the areas that I hunt. That being said here goes
The answer I would give is it depends on what type of bull u would like to kill.
Normally we can bugle and cow call in 3-5 sattelite bulls a day. These r around 300 inch bulls. It's a blast. And these r the bulls i usually shoot. Very enjoyable. Rewarding, call them in close and shooting them. In these situations I have a hard time passing on a great 300 inch bull that is screaming in my face.
Herd bulls. These r bulls that r generally 330 plus in my stomping grounds. I have called in very few. 3 total. In 21 years. A herd bull situation to me is a mature 330+ bull and has cows with sattelites bothering him. I don't have the skill set necessary to cow call or bugle these bulls in. I have found much better success using the following scenario: if my partner and I encounter a herd. Cows. Sattelites. And a big bull and we r willing to lose a chance at a 300 inch bull we simply sneak in and try and kill him. One guy stays back and calls if necessary just to keep the bulls talking. The other goes solo and quiet.
It's still a long shot but we have better odds on big bulls going quiet
Elknut really is the guy to talk to
The answer I would give is it depends on what type of bull u would like to kill.
Normally we can bugle and cow call in 3-5 sattelite bulls a day. These r around 300 inch bulls. It's a blast. And these r the bulls i usually shoot. Very enjoyable. Rewarding, call them in close and shooting them. In these situations I have a hard time passing on a great 300 inch bull that is screaming in my face.
Herd bulls. These r bulls that r generally 330 plus in my stomping grounds. I have called in very few. 3 total. In 21 years. A herd bull situation to me is a mature 330+ bull and has cows with sattelites bothering him. I don't have the skill set necessary to cow call or bugle these bulls in. I have found much better success using the following scenario: if my partner and I encounter a herd. Cows. Sattelites. And a big bull and we r willing to lose a chance at a 300 inch bull we simply sneak in and try and kill him. One guy stays back and calls if necessary just to keep the bulls talking. The other goes solo and quiet.
It's still a long shot but we have better odds on big bulls going quiet
Elknut really is the guy to talk to
billdoe5
FNG
In my opinion it depends how the elk are calling lol... If the bull is agressive and bugling a lot i will try to piss him off every now and then with a bugle and chuckle back.... And i always do cow calls but the amount again varies on how much that bull is screamin...
jjenness
Lil-Rokslider
I think that there are two main factors to consider. First, the time of year is important. In my experience many bulls are usually not ready to respond favorably early in Sept. but as the season progresses I will gradually increase the frequency and intensity of my calling. Then as the season ends I usually limit calling to cow calling, and have had many bulls come in silent to scope things out. Secondly, the amount of hunting pressure in any particular area greatly influences whether or not elk will respond to calling. I remember hunting in the Missouri River Breaks before it became a big circus, and we could call bulls all day long and call in many different bulls. Then as the years progressed, more and more people started to hunt there and next thing you know the elk stopped responding to our calls. In fact, there were several occasions when a bulls would be going absolutely nuts, bugling their heads off, and the first time anyone would try to call back the elk would shut up and you wouldn't hear from them again. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes you can make every god awful sound you want and the bulls just keep on a comin.
Do what the elk are doing. If its early season then be a sniper and sneak in silent. If the rut is swinging... Locates are good to find elk....listen to how the bull responds....bugle....or bugle with chuckles......or bugle with grunts.....if you don't know the difference go to elk nut. If he grunts back you know you can pick a fight with him. I agree about herd bulls....you will have a hard time pulling them. Maybe 60 yds if your doggin the herd with cow calls. If u really want to try and pull a herd bull...get close and go all in...scream at him....with some distress cow calls. 9 times out of 10 I'm silent trying to kill this bull.
"how do you recognize a calling situation and when is it best to just shut up and let the situation develop?"
Trophyhill, there's not just one answer that relates to all encounters to the questions above. Why, because if elk are rutting hard & aggressive in nature that day we will be extremely aggressive in return. Sometimes there is no calling by the elk for days on end, it doesn't mean calling of sorts shouldn't be used, it means the calling chosen must raise curiosity, this can turn into a calling situation! There is no day in late Aug. all of Sept & Oct where elk cannot be called too!
It's best to limit ones calling when elk are vocal on their own, this means you can move in on them as they provide us with the needed direction. Once direction or known travel routes are intact a great ambush can take place without any calling back & giving our position or existence away. There are times selective aggressive action will be taken on our part if we are after a particular bull during these high rutting times. Calling to elk is "situational" understand what you're hearing & act accordingly, this means you are "fitting in" -- The sounds you use are ones elk expect to hear in a specific situation, this can lead to your success!
ElkNut1
Trophyhill, there's not just one answer that relates to all encounters to the questions above. Why, because if elk are rutting hard & aggressive in nature that day we will be extremely aggressive in return. Sometimes there is no calling by the elk for days on end, it doesn't mean calling of sorts shouldn't be used, it means the calling chosen must raise curiosity, this can turn into a calling situation! There is no day in late Aug. all of Sept & Oct where elk cannot be called too!
It's best to limit ones calling when elk are vocal on their own, this means you can move in on them as they provide us with the needed direction. Once direction or known travel routes are intact a great ambush can take place without any calling back & giving our position or existence away. There are times selective aggressive action will be taken on our part if we are after a particular bull during these high rutting times. Calling to elk is "situational" understand what you're hearing & act accordingly, this means you are "fitting in" -- The sounds you use are ones elk expect to hear in a specific situation, this can lead to your success!
ElkNut1
billdoe5
FNG
"Its best to limit ones calling when elk are vocal on their own"... I disagree with this. When you move in on elk ur odds go down by a huge margin... Especially when its a herd bull with lots of cows... more eyes and ears and noses to pick you out... Better chance of getting that lead cow to pull the elk your way... thats why u need a caller 100 yards behind you...
Well, ElkNut wrote the book on this stuff(literally). I don't want to sound too harsh, but he has a lot of dead elk to back up his advice.
justin davis
WKR
It is definitly situation dependant. I think early on in th season you have a good chance of calling in a nice bull. where as later in the season the bigger bulls will be harder to call in.
when it comes to calling i think a bugle is better than a cow call.
one thing to consider is the caliber of bull your after? are you trying to kill any elk..the herd bull or what? It's fairly easy to call in a satilite bull but I have found the "herd" bulls know better. Or they are big and bad and cows come to them.
There are some very achomplished elk "callers" out there who consistently take bulls year after year by calling. Elk nut, Dirk Durham, Corey Jacobson, the list goes on.
But Personally I have had the best success by being quiet. Stalking in on a bugling bulls, or intercepting a herd. My biggest bulls have come from not calling and just being silent. I will sometimes call to locate a bull and then shut up. You know when the elk are quiet but need a call to fire them up and then they start bugling. It is situational thou.
But I have had my share of encounters when everything and seemed to be going good. Then I cow called and all hell broke loose and all the elk heading for the next state. All because of a single cow call.
when it comes to calling i think a bugle is better than a cow call.
one thing to consider is the caliber of bull your after? are you trying to kill any elk..the herd bull or what? It's fairly easy to call in a satilite bull but I have found the "herd" bulls know better. Or they are big and bad and cows come to them.
There are some very achomplished elk "callers" out there who consistently take bulls year after year by calling. Elk nut, Dirk Durham, Corey Jacobson, the list goes on.
But Personally I have had the best success by being quiet. Stalking in on a bugling bulls, or intercepting a herd. My biggest bulls have come from not calling and just being silent. I will sometimes call to locate a bull and then shut up. You know when the elk are quiet but need a call to fire them up and then they start bugling. It is situational thou.
But I have had my share of encounters when everything and seemed to be going good. Then I cow called and all hell broke loose and all the elk heading for the next state. All because of a single cow call.
I will be in the minority here, but I am elk hunting in September for the adrenaline rush of the elk rut. Being quite and not using my calls is not in my arsenal too often. Yes, calling sometimes may have cost me an opportunity or two through the years, but it has also created many, many opportunties, harvests and incredible memories. I tend to bugle and grunt 60-70% and soft cow mews the other 30-40%. As a case in point, and in all over the counter units, in one day last fall I called in 4 separate 6 pts, 1 of these was engaging another bull and the other 3 were not talking until I started talking. Brush and angles did not present a shot, but all came within 25 yds. On another day I snuck in on 6 bulls just going off, snuck in to 100 yds and started calling and they wanted nothing to do with me. In this scenario, I typically would have started calling from a distance, but something told me to wait until I got close as 2 were fighting and all were just singing every 45 seconds. Another day a bull in mid to late September was just going off by himself and past experience told me to get in close and give some really quite cow calls. My partner and I got within 50 yds and I gave 2-3 almost inaudible mews and he came running and screaming in and my partner hit a limb at 7 yds. The bull I ended up taking, I had called in a 6 pt early in the morning on 9/29, he winded me at 25 yds and I then got unto a hive of bulls. I chased this herd bull for 2 hrs before I could split the herd and seal the deal at 16 yds. I grew up hunting elk in the aggressive fashion of Mike Lapinski and the cover in NIdaho and Nwest Mt allows aggressive moves and insane action at times. This game isn't for everyone, nor is it perfect, but it is a lot of fun There are many ways to get it done and this is just my method.
There are many ways to get it done and this is just my method.billdoe5, thanks for your observation & comment, I agree there are times for ones doing their best to use whatever means is necessary to pull the herd bull towards the hunter, if it means doing what you can to pull the cows in hopes of the herd bull following then by all means we should do so. One should note though that this is a very low odds of success to kill this particular bull. Cows, spikes & rags generally show first with this type of attempt, those that show first generally come in fairly quick & are in search mode big time looking for the elk they heard (you), your chances of being spotted or smelled are better that the herd bull prancing by for a bow shot, sure it can happen but the odds are very low. There are much better techniques of use to kill this bull than generally trying to call his cows to you which is very tough to do in the first place. Your chances are enhanced considerably by posing a serious Threat to him directly or to his Harem! Closeness is a key factor.
For the record you did take my comment out of context, I was referring to "no calling" in a specific situation there not all elk hunting situations. Read a bit more after that comment & you'll see I was talking about elk that are taking a specific route back to bedding or feeding grounds, when this occurs we as hunters are better suited to clam up & allow the elk to continue on their path right by our ambush, there is no need to throw an elk sound in the mix causing undo alert where elk are now looking for the source on their approach where otherwise they would move by us anyway.
It may have appeared I was not being aggressive enough to some in my comment but those who've seen our material know we are as aggressive of elk hunters as it gets! (grin) There are times to pull back the reigns though & allow things to develop!
Justin makes an interesting comment too, I hope some caught that & thought about it? He mentioned bull sounds having a big impact over cow calling! Out of all the elk we've taken 80%-85% are taken via bull sounds, the rest with cow sounds or a equal combination of both. The key to taking elk every year is knowing what situation requires what? Don't be a one dimensional hunter & rely on one or two sounds to fit all situations because it will not happen. When bulls are rutting & expressing themselves aggressively they are much easier to hunt, when they are saying nothing at all for days this is where your bag of tricks needs to be considered.
ElkNut1
For the record you did take my comment out of context, I was referring to "no calling" in a specific situation there not all elk hunting situations. Read a bit more after that comment & you'll see I was talking about elk that are taking a specific route back to bedding or feeding grounds, when this occurs we as hunters are better suited to clam up & allow the elk to continue on their path right by our ambush, there is no need to throw an elk sound in the mix causing undo alert where elk are now looking for the source on their approach where otherwise they would move by us anyway.
It may have appeared I was not being aggressive enough to some in my comment but those who've seen our material know we are as aggressive of elk hunters as it gets! (grin) There are times to pull back the reigns though & allow things to develop!
Justin makes an interesting comment too, I hope some caught that & thought about it? He mentioned bull sounds having a big impact over cow calling! Out of all the elk we've taken 80%-85% are taken via bull sounds, the rest with cow sounds or a equal combination of both. The key to taking elk every year is knowing what situation requires what? Don't be a one dimensional hunter & rely on one or two sounds to fit all situations because it will not happen. When bulls are rutting & expressing themselves aggressively they are much easier to hunt, when they are saying nothing at all for days this is where your bag of tricks needs to be considered.
ElkNut1
billdoe5
FNG
Im not just saying pull his lead cow away, thats only one method... The chances of of u sneaking up on a herd bull are worse... I like to try to get within his 100 to 200 yard zone and basically piss him off by racking shit and bugling.... Oh and by the way i know the rag horns come in and are alert but thats why i like a guy 100 yards behind me, so they walk right by and when they get to the other guy he should stop calling and the bull would walk off...
billdoe5
FNG
Oh and Justin any of those bulls herd bulls?
billdoe5
FNG
In all reality no method is the right way/best way... You can write a book on elk hunting a certain way, but guess what the next day someone else will right one a different way. The only method that matters is the one that is working for you.
billdoe5
FNG
No comment to that???
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2012
- Messages
- 8,693
billdoe5, lets see your bulls. Ross, Elknut and Justin have three different ways of making it happen year in and year out. There proof is in there pictures.
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