3pts going to get a Gen elk tag in 2021? **Wyoming

[rodney482]

Use to be a slam dunk.

 

[Elkhntr08]

I drew with 2, two years ago. Put in with 1 this year, ya never know, but making plans elsewhere.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

I got one last year with 3

 

[Indian Summer]

3 points is a totally different ballgame this year than it was last year. I think 3.1 would be a better position to be in.

My question is will 2 points do it in the special this year???

 

[rodney482]

3 points is a totally different ballgame this year than it was last year. I think 3.1 would be a better position to be in.

My question is will 2 points do it in the special this year???

I sure hope

 

[Indian Summer]

I sure hope

You, my partner.... and a couple thousand other guys right! If not I’ll be solo unless another partner draws in the random with zero. The wait until May is torture! Just think we could be getting draw results next week. Sigh.....

 

[rodney482]

You, my partner.... and a couple thousand other guys right! If not I’ll be solo unless another partner draws in the random with zero. The wait until May is torture! Just think we could be getting draw results next week. Sigh.....

Them delaying results......

 

[Indian Summer]

Yeah it’s a killer waiting soooo long to find out. But it was the right thing to do. Setting a license quota before spring counts is definitely not the best management plan. Neither is adjusting the number of licenses after guys have their applications set in stone. I think Wyoming does a good job and can’t blame them for doing whatever they think is best for the elk herd and our hunting. Good luck !

 

[rodney482]

Yeah it’s a killer waiting soooo long to find out. But it was the right thing to do. Setting a license quota before spring counts is definitely not the best management plan. Neither is adjusting the number of licenses after guys have their applications set in stone. I think Wyoming does a good job and can’t blame them for doing whatever they think is best for the elk herd and our hunting. Good luck !

Yeah I get it and agree but daggum

 

[wapitibob]

They could have easily merged the NR Elk draw with the others but outfitter Gilliland stood there and told them how much more money they'd make if they drew nr Elk a few weeks before the A/D draw. Low and behold, just like every year, NR Antelope and Deer apps went up. This May draw date has zero chance of getting moved now.

 

[Jwknutson17]

3 points is a totally different ballgame this year than it was last year. I think 3.1 would be a better position to be in.

My question is will 2 points do it in the special this year???

I'm in with 2 in the special for WY. Well see what happens. Wish WY results would come out before our CO deadline. Maybe get skunked and just be helping buddies out this year and gaining points.

 

[pirogue]

Yeah it’s a killer waiting soooo long to find out. But it was the right thing to do.

The right thing to would be adjust the deadline for putting in. Everyone on here knows how many state deadlines are in February and March, with results about a month later. WY just wants the record of holding your money the longest.

 

[Indian Summer]

The right thing to would be adjust the deadline for putting in. Everyone on here knows how many state deadlines are in February and March, with results about a month later. WY just wants the record of holding your money the longest.

Yes that is insane really. They give us until May to modify or withdraw applications. That should be the deadline to apply.

 

[rodney482]

Yes that is insane really. They give us until May to modify or withdraw applications. That should be the deadline to apply.

Mostly about them holding millions

 

[wytx]

No it's not. The outfitters are the reason for the delay in drawing. WG&F would love to have the deadline and drawing closer together, after season quotas are set, but outfitters have been pushing for the early app so they get first crack at NR hunters applying for licenses all over the West.

Quotas are set after winter counts etc... Numbers are not ready by Jan 31 for the NR apps. They draw after season quotas are set , not before. Quotas are set based on population estimates and herd objectives.
Blame the outfitters not the WG&F for the lapse in time between apps and drawing.

 

[pirogue]

A state’s game and fish department’s goal should be focused on what is in the best interest of its fish and game, not be in bed with the outfitters. If I received marketing info from an outfitter 3 months before the draw, it would go in the “do not consider” file. I don’t think any guide is that incompetent. Waste of time and money. Flyers I have received in the past have been after the draw.

 

[BuzzH]

A state’s game and fish department’s goal should be focused on what is in the best interest of its fish and game, not be in bed with the outfitters. If I received marketing info from an outfitter 3 months before the draw, it would go in the “do not consider” file. I don’t think any guide is that incompetent. Waste of time and money. Flyers I have received in the past have been after the draw.

Trust me, if the outfitters had their way, the drawing would still be in February.

If you want to complain and whine about why this happened, I'm your guy. Myself and a friend from Casper lobbied the Commission hard to get the draw date moved back. We had several meetings with the Commissioners and worked mostly with Commissioner Crank to get this moved. He was opposed at first, but after some serious problems with the early draw, we convinced him and a couple others.

This all started when we were asked by some Department folks to try to get the draw date pushed back as it was causing these issues:

1. The biologists were having to "guess" on harvest statistics, winter conditions, and even classification data in some cases. The early draw simply didn't give the biologists the time they needed to come up with quotas.

2. Because of the early draw, Residents were getting hosed out of about 500 LQ tags a year. We had the department license division run a report on LQ elk tags. Because the early NR draw was based on "estimated" quota's, anytime a LQ area was reduced, NR's were receiving an over-allocation of tags (more than department regulation of 16%). Conversely, R's were receiving fewer than their allotment of 84%. To alleviate that particular problem, we worked with the Department and they agreed to issue additional tags to the R's for that year. This was not a long term fix. That same year, my buddy worked with the department to come up with a partial fix to the allotment issue...which reduced the number of over-issued NR tags and brought the splits closer to the correct allocation. Not perfect, but a band aid until we could get the correct change.

3. There was another issue regarding NR's being ripped out of opportunity on any new elk seasons being proposed. The season setting meeting in April is when new seasons were approved by the commission. Meaning that any new season, NR's were NOT getting the chance to even apply. Their drawing was already over by the time the commission approved the season.

4. There was also an issue that happened regarding unit 100 type 2 which is a spike only season. Because of the early NR draw, the commission realized too late that they couldn't address the issue of that "spike only" tag being used for ANY bull during archery season. So, several people that were paying attention, drew those tags and then hunted ANY bull during archery on the spike only tag. In other words, the commission had NO way of addressing the issue because of the early NR draw.

5. Department regulations also require the Commission to approve the final quota's before issuing tags. That wasn't happening.

That's the background as to the "why".

Here's how it shook out with regard to changing the draw date. The commission was changing the draw date, that was already going to happen thanks to our lobbying efforts and pointing out the many problems (1-5). The outfitters were not happy, but new the draw date was going to be pushed back. Our recommendation was to have one draw date for everything, one application deadline. But, WOGA, Sy Gilliland in particular, got the commission to agree to cut off the application date in January. Their reason was to "lock in" NR hunters before other states and also allow NR's to know their elk results and still have time to decide on deer and pronghorn.

Trust me, I thought about fighting that, but sometimes when you get 95% of the cake...its best to take the win and let the WOGA have the crumbs.

We solved the issue to make things fair, license allocations correct, allow NR's to apply for any new seasons the first year, and saved the Department biologists a bunch of unnecessary work.

This has nothing to do with the department "holding millions" and trying to make NR elk hunters lives miserable. It's 100% about doing right by the resource, the biologists, and also equally distributing elk tags via the regulatory process (commission quota approvals, tag splits, etc.).

As per usual when I read stuff like this, it appears no good deed ever goes unpunished. Goes with the territory and I'd do nothing different. It was a good move for everyone, most importantly the wildlife.

 

[pirogue]

Thanks for the explanation. I would agree with most, if not all, of the reasons for pushing out the draw date make good sense. The one reason for not pushing out the application deadline, because the greedy, selfish outfitters think they can “lock in” NRs, doesn’t make any sense. What NR is going to lock in and pay an outfitter 1/2 the fee, 3 months ahead of the draw, not to mention the fact the majority of those NRs are reluctant to pay because they know they may draw in another state during that timeframe. And again, it’s been two weeks since the deadline, and I haven’t seen any flyers. In the past, I definitely received flyers within 2 weeks of the draw.

 

[Fatcamp]

LOL. Buzz may rub people the wrong way, but damn if he isn't honest.

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks for the explanation. I would agree with most, if not all, of the reasons for pushing out the draw date make good sense. The one reason for not pushing out the application deadline, because the greedy, selfish outfitters think they can “lock in” NRs, doesn’t make any sense. What NR is going to lock in and pay an outfitter 1/2 the fee, 3 months ahead of the draw, not to mention the fact the majority of those NRs are reluctant to pay because they know they may draw in another state during that timeframe. And again, it’s been two weeks since the deadline, and I haven’t seen any flyers. In the past, I definitely received flyers within 2 weeks of the draw.

They didn't do it to lock in the individual hunter, just the broader NR elk hunters. Theory being that Wyoming would get first crack at NR elk hunters in the draw. Reality is, it doesn't even do that, because a hunter can modify or withdraw their NR elk application up until early May. It was all smoke and mirrors and they convinced the Commission that if they didn't cut off the NR application deadline January 31, there wouldn't be enough NR elk applicants. Apparently they haven't looked at the demand reports. But, like I said, if made them feel like they "won" something with that, and the other issues were solved...so be it. You learn quick in this wonderful world of conservation/wildlife politics...don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. There's a line, sometimes a fine one, between fighting just for the sake of fighting, or letting a few things slide for the greater good.

I think the bigger thing for them was to give unsuccessful elk hunters the chance to put in for pronghorn and deer if they didn't draw.