3pts going to get a Gen elk tag in 2021? **Wyoming

[Laramie]

Buzz outlines it perfectly above- lot of good reasons for the late draw date. Maybe some people will decide they won't apply for Wyoming because of the added inconvenience. We can only hope as draw odds could use a little drop off in applicants. At the rate we are increasing, a non-resident will be lucky to hunt Wyoming General Elk once a decade by the 2030s.

 

[pirogue]

I appreciate Buzz’s explanation. In

. It was all smoke and mirrors and they convinced the Commission that if they didn't cut off the NR application deadline January 31, there wouldn't be enough NR elk applicants. Apparently they haven't looked at the demand reports.

The biggest take away of all; how incompetent the commission is. Thanks for clarifying, Buzz. And if I ever need a guide in WY, one of their selection/eliminating criteria will be their relation, thoughts toward Gilliland.

 

[wapitibob]

The nr elk draw was exempt by regulation from the commission approval requirement.
Those numbers were usually set in December/January and every bio I talked to hated it.
Gilliland spoke to the point of the early nr elk results enableing and resulting in higher nr apps for deer and antelope.

 

[BuzzH]

I appreciate Buzz’s explanation. In


The biggest take away of all; how incompetent the commission is. Thanks for clarifying, Buzz. And if I ever need a guide in WY, one of their selection/eliminating criteria will be their relation, thoughts toward Gilliland.

I think that's a bit harsh in regard to the commission. What's been happening lately, is that the WOGA just hasn't been able to have their way in regard to the Legislature and Commission.

The information age has changed that, too many people paying attention, too easy to attend meetings, send comments, more sportsmen's groups paying attention, etc.

WOGA got their way for years, not so much these days and that's a good thing.

 

[BuzzH]

The nr elk draw was exempt by regulation from the commission approval requirement.
Those numbers were usually set in December/January and every bio I talked to hated it.
Gilliland spoke to the point of the early nr elk results enableing and resulting in higher nr apps for deer and antelope.

Yes, but shouldn't have been, for all kinds of reasons.

Makes no sense to draw before you know what the final quota's are and that was an easy sell to the commission. Timing is everything, and that 100 type 2 fiasco was the final straw.

Plus, even though the regulation didn't require commission approval for the early draw, it DID cause a violation of other regulations specific to the tag splits.

Pretty tough to have regulation A (or lack-there-of) creating a violation of regulation B.

It had to be addressed.

 

[pirogue]

Delaying draw date-well justified. Not proportionately (or even a fraction) delaying application deadline-wrong. No reason to hold NR money for 4+months, when other states hold for about 1 month.

 

[CAElkhunter]

There is a great reason for them, not us... to hold our NR Money...It is called they maximizing revenue by holding the money and getting interest/return off of our app money until you draw unsuccessful. 3 extra mons mean extra $$ to them. It is one step beyond AZ, UT, NV requiring you to pay $ 70-145 for a hunting license just to apply for a draw. Elk hunting in the West has become big money for the states that have Elk.

 

[wapitibob]

The funds from holding nr Elk money was about $48k last year if i remember correctly.
While I personally would prefer all draws combined I can see gillilands point about nr wanting elk draw results prior to the antelope/deer draw. With that in mind I’d like to see the app period extended to the May 10 date. Results the 3rd week of May. As Buzz pointed out nr aren’t really locked in when they can simply withdraw their app up to the change date.

 

[BuzzH]

The funds from holding nr money was about $48k last year if i remember correctly.

Right, hardly a reason to hold it...the GF was not responsible for what happened. It was recommended by WOGA and the commission adopted it.

Ancillary benefit to the Department of 48k going to wildlife management, that hunters supposedly care about.

I'm fine with any state holding my money and making some money on it. Trouble is, most people applying now don't recall that most states, not that long ago, made you front the money. There were times between my wife and I we would have 15-18K out in applications.

Now, a vast majority don't make you front it....wish they would. Would make people prioritize instead of plastering all the Western States with applications.

 

[NB7]

Probably a dumb question here but since I'm not familiar with how the state laws are set up, and rather than sifting through tons of internet searching for the answer...
Is the 48K+/- that is "made", come from non-refundable portions of the application fees, or are we talking interest from accounts that hold those same fees for the course of several months?

Just wondering, because I thought I recall a recent Randy Newberg podcast where he said something about law in Montana does not allow for interest to be made on the fees while they are held by the state- at least I think I have that right? Granted, that's Montana and you're talking Wyoming, but I always assumed that respective states, while they sit on application fees for weeks or months, are collecting some small amount of interest while the time passes?

And forgive me for slightly hijacking the thread, it seemed like the perfect place to ask while the topic is current.
Thanks

 

[coues craze]

Right, hardly a reason to hold it...the GF was not responsible for what happened. It was recommended by WOGA and the commission adopted it.

Ancillary benefit to the Department of 48k going to wildlife management, that hunters supposedly care about.

I'm fine with any state holding my money and making some money on it. Trouble is, most people applying now don't recall that most states, not that long ago, made you front the money. There were times between my wife and I we would have 15-18K out in applications.

Now, a vast majority don't make you front it....wish they would. Would make people prioritize instead of plastering all the Western States with applications.

I agree 100%. I wish you still had to front the money in all states. Wonder what kind of belly aching WOGA will start if/when the new MT law passes and hunters have an elk tag before WY even has deadline

 

[Elktaco]

I've drawn 3 times with zero points!

 

[wind gypsy]

I've drawn 3 times with zero points!

piss off

 

[j_volt]

My anxiety with 3.5 points

 

[dirtytough]

There is a great reason for them, not us... to hold our NR Money...It is called they maximizing revenue by holding the money and getting interest/return off of our app money until you draw unsuccessful. 3 extra mons mean extra $$ to them. It is one step beyond AZ, UT, NV requiring you to pay $ 70-145 for a hunting license just to apply for a draw. Elk hunting in the West has become big money for the states that have Elk.

NM, AZ, NV, UT, etc have a license fee. WY has a 2.5% CC fee. That CC fee adds up a ton when applying for multiple species. The state’s will get their money one way or the other.

The funds from holding nr Elk money was about $48k last year if i remember correctly.
While I personally would prefer all draws combined I can see gillilands point about nr wanting elk draw results prior to the antelope/deer draw. With that in mind I’d like to see the app period extended to the May 10 date. Results the 3rd week of May. As Buzz pointed out nr aren’t really locked in when they can simply withdraw their app up to the change date.

The only shitty part about withdrawing is that you still lose money. I’m fine with the deadline before deer/antelope. That’s a positive and a negative for non res depending on how you look at it.


One thing an applicant should understand is that it’s only going to get more expensive, draw odds will get worse, and the actual draw will change. That’s for all states.

 

[Kimber7man]

I appreciate Buzz’s explanation. In


The biggest take away of all; how incompetent the commission is. Thanks for clarifying, Buzz. And if I ever need a guide in WY, one of their selection/eliminating criteria will be their relation, thoughts toward Gilliland.

That’s a pretty broad brush you’re painting with. Not that it matters to you or anyone else, however I know commissioner Dube and IMO he is a very honorable and intelligent man.

 

[BuzzH]

That’s a pretty broad brush you’re painting with. Not that it matters to you or anyone else, however I know commissioner Dube and IMO he is a very honorable and intelligent man.

Totally agree and if the commission(ers) don't know everything, its our job to assist and help them understand the issues.

Anyone can sit back, do nothing, then complain when things aren't going how they think they should.

It takes patience, time, and effort to come to favorable conclusions on issues and also a need to work together.

Even then, we're all human and things aren't always going to go our way, there's multiple interests out there, politics, all kinds of things that impact decision makers and how they decide.

It's life...and I learned long ago, you aren't going to ever make everyone happy. Also, there are some people that are impossible to please.

But, I agree with your assessment of commissioner Dube and the others, they're good people that aren't out there to do harm to the Department, the wildlife, or sportsmen. They just have to make decisions to the best of their ability with the facts they're provided and the input we all provide. Some times I agree and sometimes I disagree with their decisions, but what I am confident of, there is no malice intended.

 

[wapitibob]

Probably a dumb question here but since I'm not familiar with how the state laws are set up, and rather than sifting through tons of internet searching for the answer...
Is the 48K+/- that is "made", come from non-refundable portions of the application fees, or are we talking interest from accounts that hold those same fees for the course of several months?

Just wondering, because I thought I recall a recent Randy Newberg podcast where he said something about law in Montana does not allow for interest to be made on the fees while they are held by the state- at least I think I have that right? Granted, that's Montana and you're talking Wyoming, but I always assumed that respective states, while they sit on application fees for weeks or months, are collecting some small amount of interest while the time passes?

And forgive me for slightly hijacking the thread, it seemed like the perfect place to ask while the topic is current.
Thanks

the $48k I was referring too is interest on nr license fees. It’s been a while since that commission meeting and I can’t recall the exact phrase used to describe the account holding that money. I only brought it up because the often mentioned “it’s a money grab” when ever a game dept changes something.

$48k isn’t much but it helps. I had a conversation a cpl years ago with an access coordinator and he mentioned having to ration trucks to employees. Quit a bit different than “they’re all driving brand new rigs” I read about on the Internet.

 

[wapitibob]

The Wyoming game dept doesn’t get much money from the credit card fee. The processor charges the dept 2% for every purchase including non license purchases and charges a flat rate for every refund. When implemented they calculated 2.3% would likely cover everything. I would assume they have that drilled down a bit better now.

 

[sneaky]

No it's not. The outfitters are the reason for the delay in drawing. WG&F would love to have the deadline and drawing closer together, after season quotas are set, but outfitters have been pushing for the early app so they get first crack at NR hunters applying for licenses all over the West.

Quotas are set after winter counts etc... Numbers are not ready by Jan 31 for the NR apps. They draw after season quotas are set , not before. Quotas are set based on population estimates and herd objectives.
Blame the outfitters not the WG&F for the lapse in time between apps and drawing.

WYOGA gonna be pissed if MT moves their early apps for outfitters up to December. It'll blow their whole plan out of the water.

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