Big Game Forever & Sportsman For Wildlife

[wapitibob]

Does it not seem odd that RMEF is able to generate hundreds of thousands of dollars without "Average Joes" Elk, Deer or Sheep tag, but SFW is not?

Something to ponder.......

 

[wapitibob]

One last point. The guys/gals planting trees, digging ditches, working fences, and burning brush have earned our admiration. The upper level mgmt. that has turned Conservation into a money making business and transfered public draw tags into auction items priced out of reach for most, deserve the scrutiny they're now getting.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

WyoBob,
Can you account for where the interest earned on the 60-30-10 account goes?

 

[WyoBob]

sreekers:
Are you serious?

This really seems as though you are stretching things a bit but I will take a stab at it:

I would assume that the 60% goes towards the projects, the 30% goes to the state and the 10% stays with the organization. Having said that, I have no idea what kind of fees are also paid but I would be someone has to pay credit card processing fees, etc. I was told that this entire process was audited by the Utah legislative body. Not sure the process but it is what I was told. I would think that if the Utah legislators thought something was amiss they would have taken action and it would have most likely been all over the news. Given the fact that Utah has not been running all kinds of stories proclaiming someone or some organization has violated the law, I believe it is safe to assume no laws have been broken to date. Perhaps that is a question you can address to the Utah legislative body as all I can do is assume and we all not what that does to you and me, right?

 

[bearguide]

ok i guess i have to say something about all the groups. think that every group trying to help wildlife is a good thing. i think some groups are doing a better job at helping wildlife than others. each one of us should be dedicated to helping out wildlife also. each of us should affiliate with the group or groups of our choice and put sincere effort into helping where we can. i wish there was a group out there that everyone could unite behind, because, as someone said, a house divided can not stand. but since we all want to help wildlife, we should concentrate our efforts on doing good, instead of tearing others groups down. if you are helping and participating with some group helping wildlife, GREAT. if you are not helping out, then you should have no voice until you do. if you are helping, then concentrate your efforts in a positive direction. all this tearing down of others is counter productive to the effort to help wildlife. let's be supportive of everyone and try to continually improve the way we do things. outdoorsmen need to help wildlife as a strong group, not as a bunch of fragmented groups fighting each other. we have to be strong and positive to fight the tough fights in our future. i say look for the good in everyone and try to improve things. lets keep this forum positive

 

[dotman]

ok i guess i have to say something about all the groups. think that every group trying to help wildlife is a good thing. i think some groups are doing a better job at helping wildlife than others. each one of us should be dedicated to helping out wildlife also. each of us should affiliate with the group or groups of our choice and put sincere effort into helping where we can. i wish there was a group out there that everyone could unite behind, because, as someone said, a house divided can not stand. but since we all want to help wildlife, we should concentrate our efforts on doing good, instead of tearing others groups down. if you are helping and participating with some group helping wildlife, GREAT. if you are not helping out, then you should have no voice until you do. if you are helping, then concentrate your efforts in a positive direction. all this tearing down of others is counter productive to the effort to help wildlife. let's be supportive of everyone and try to continually improve the way we do things. outdoorsmen need to help wildlife as a strong group, not as a bunch of fragmented groups fighting each other. we have to be strong and positive to fight the tough fights in our future. i say look for the good in everyone and try to improve things. lets keep this forum positive

I agree 100% with this and that is why i always tell people about RMEF. Debate and perceptions are good, in the end we need to stand up for what will contiue to allow all income ranges be out in the field, i think it just bugs those of us that can't throw $50,000 at an auction tag and hunt anything we want a little frustrated, the wildlife is a resource of the people and these auction tags are just one more way to limit most peoples chances at a quality tag. Sometimes it seems like a plan is good but it can do more harm them good overall. In the big picture the number of auction tags today may be small but it has the potenial to take quality hunting completely away from 99% of the hunting population if it keeps increasing. Hence the European model of a rich mans sport.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Bearguide I agree 100% that we need a unified front. However, I am also firmly convinced that SFW is more of a detriment to that cause based on much research. When an organization has people in leadership like the bear poaching situation in Alaska it gives more ammunition to anti's that we are not really about honest conservation. When we take no stand on our own for incredibly shady business practices we stand to do more harm to ourselves than anyone else ever could. A unified front at the cost of our core values in North American hunting practice does not help us.

I believe the unified front has started to be developed with the loss of support for HB2072 in Arizona. Many organizations have pulled as far away from SFW as possible, and will continue to do so imo. Backdoor meetings have shown that AZSFW and its affiliates across the west will do what is necessary to accomplish THEIR goals for big money hunts with little opportunity for average hunter.

A common enemy may unite many fronts, but the trick is going to be staying unified after this debate is over. It can be done, and should be done, but my hope is that in the future the organizations that we send our money to will understand that we don't do it for them to line their pockets.

 

[WyoBob]

sreekers:
I also agree 100% with Bearguide, not just on the unified front, but on supporting the groups you believe in and not running down others. You mentioned the case in Alaska as though Cory has already been convicted. It has not even gone to court yet. Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to go back and read my very first post. Obviously, Cory has done a lot to remove some of the problems within state wildlife management agencies which continue to manage predators so conservatively.

SFW & BGF are very good groups and they are fighting a fight(s) no one else has been willing to fight for far too long. Rather than throwing rocks at them, perhaps you should get more involved with them. By becoming more involved, you could better understand what sportsmen are really up against and know first hand how and why decisions were/are made.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

By battles others fight do you mean the wolves? I don't believe the bill that SFW introduced even got a hearing(Hatch-Rehberg).

RMEF, SCI, NRA, B&C, P&Y, all supported the Simpson-Tester bill. It passed and we now have wolf delisting.

 

[dotman]

Well we can all agree to disagree but i don't see how you think they are the only ones taking on the important issues, BGF tried to have the ridwr taken off the budget, the rider that now allows for wolf hunting. That is just a fact.

 

[dotman]

It is hard to hear though and not speakout about groups that i feel are slowly taking away from the majority, i will not have good things to say about PETA and it is hard to follow SFW & BGF even if they have a well written mission statement, actions speak for privatized hunting, taking rights away from us avg hunters and letting the rich buy in. Now if SFW & BGF would stop with the auction tag grabs and use memeber donations to actually fight for equal opportunities and rights for hunters my view would change.

I do not believe that SFW & BGF have 99% of hunters interests in mind or their right to equally have a chance at quality tags/game. To me these two groups are no different then the anti-hunting groups because they are all trying to or actually taking tags out of the general publics hands and keep lobbying states to follow the UT model on auctioning the states resources to the highest bidder. I also do not feel stating this is an attack on these groups, it is just a fact based on the actions these groups have taken. Many groups support wolf hunting that are not related to hunting, maybe we should all join the cattlemams association. This is why i speak out about these groups, their actions in the name of conservation do not support 99% of hunters, to say we support hunting wolves really isn't the final point because many support this. To support a group that says they were integral in getting wolf hunting legalized when they initially didn't support a bill that had a chance in making this change isn't having the majority of hunters in mind.

In the end auction tags are no different then wolves, they both reduce 99% of hunters chances at a good tag.

Now i understand SFW & BGF members may take this as an assualt but it is how the majority that actually knows what is being done in the name of conservation. Auction tags alienate the majority, some just don't/won't realize this until the day comes when yes they have the right to hunt but cannot afford to do it. I also agree that in the near future the 99% will wake up and see how much auction tags are a detriment to their hunting ops and the majority will lobby to end this practice which will be financial ruin to orgs that rely on taking tags out of the general lottery.

 

[HvyBeams]

It is hard to hear though and not speakout about groups that i feel are slowly taking away from the majority, i will not have good things to say about PETA and it is hard to follow SFW & BGF even if they have a well written mission statement the actions speak for privatized hunting, taking rights away from us avg hunters and lwtting the rich buy in. Now if SFW & BGF would stop with the auction tag grabs and use memeber donations to actually fight for equal opportunities and rights for hunters my view would change.

I do not believe that SFW & BGF have 99% of hunters interests in mind or their right to equally have a chance at quality tags/game. To me these two groups are no different then the anti-hunting groups because they are all trying to or actually taking tags out of the general publics hads and keep lobbying states to follow the UT model on auctioning the states resources to the highest bidder. I also do not feel stating this is an attack on these groups it is just a fact based on the actions these groups have done. Many groups support wolf hunting that are not related to hunting, maybe we should all join the cattlemams association. This is why i speak out about these groups, their actions in the name of conservation do not support 99% of hunters, to say we support hunting wolves really isn't the final point because many support this. To support a group that says they were integral in getting wolf hunting legalized when they initially didn't support a bill that had a chance in making this change isn't having the majority of hunter in mind.

In the end auction tags are no different then wolves, they both reduce 99% of hunters chances at a good tag.

Dotman, I see you haven't mentioned anything about MDF. Aren't they partners in the Expo? I am unaware of BGF getting any Expo tags, but I could be wrong.

 

[dotman]

I haven't heard much negative about them, but they do not rely on auction tags from what i have heard. It is a fact a number of groups recieve auction/raffle tags. RMEF gives back big time and that is money well spent.

So really to sum this up it is hard to support groups that push auction/raffle tags in the name of conservation, we did quite well the past 70 years without this practice. It is one thing to have this op it is another to use it fully to run your org.

So will SFW & BGF support legislation for 90% of the proceeds for auction tags to go directly to the states for use for their use in wildlife management? I know that the RMEF would. Maybe make the proceeds go to the habitat of the animal the tag is auctioned/raffled for. I think a large group of hunters could push for this in all 50 states especially in a time of short to no budgets for the wildlife agencies.

 

[HvyBeams]

"To me these two groups are no different then the anti-hunting groups because they are all trying to or actually taking tags out of the general publics hads and keep lobbying states to follow the UT model on auctioning the states resources to the highest bidder."

MDF is part of the Expo, but since we don't anything "negative" about them it's okay? Seems you speak with forked tongue. After all, they are taking tags from the general public's hands. So, what is it? You don't support auction tags or you do? You can't have it both ways.

 

[dotman]

Haha, i didn't say yay or nay, i said i didn't know much on them but that i haven't heard negative things. If their operating expensives are covered mainly by auction tags add them to the group, i have not heard of MDF lobbying and pushing their agenda for more and more auction tags. I don't want it both i ways, i would like to see all states take these auction tags away from all orgs, that is what i want is it possible, not anytime soon, i ask why do these tags need to be auctioned by groups and not the state directly if the must be around?

So to make it clear i am against all auction/raffle tags. RMEF has auction tags but they atleast they give back over 90% of the funds. So maybe reread again where i put SFW & BGF to task of following suit and any other org that auctions/raffles tags off. These tags will not go away but that doesn't mean all or most of the proceeds should be used to cover operating costs for thr orgs auctioing the tags.

So again, i would prefer there to be no auction tags.

 

[WyoBob]

dotman:
Have you even read any of my posts? You are selectively singling out SFW & BGF. As HvyBeams points out MDF is a partner. You keep mentioning that the RMEF gives 90% back; yet, you refuse to acknowledge that Utah's law also states what is required. I mentioned that this process had a legislative audit. You appear to be someone with an AGENDA and that is it.

 

[dotman]

Why strive to meet the minimum requirement? Why push for more auction tags? How much more could all orgs contribute if they had to give back 90% and use member fees/ donations to litigate with (RMEF seems to do this just fine). How much of the proceeds go back into lobbying for more auction tags? Why is SFW mostly known for auction tags and why have you always started out on the opposite side of legislation that favors the avg person?

Maybe that is why SFW stands out. Not trying to be mean or rude i just think it is not the right approach to conservation and that it is not fighting for the majoriry of hunters interests. Every tag you or any other org receives to auction/raffle means more and more point creap. Why has SFW been shunned by the majority of hunting conservation groups?

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

http://www.hcn.org/blogs/range/lets-put-a-bounty-on-stupid

Little more for us to consider in the conversation.

 

[WyoBob]

Hmm. Didn't I say that all this SFW & BGF bashing was based on the fact that these two organizations are the only ones pushing for increased predator control? I don't know the author of the piece but his bias is obvious. Perhaps someone should look at this new study that few are talking about. Here is the link http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyl...cle_d9cf046b-2c47-539f-a267-972e72e570b6.html

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Bob you never answered my question on where/how SFW put their support in for the wolf management bills?