Bow Hunting Turkeys

[Lil-Rokslider]

Don’t fan turkeys, no matter what the internet tells you. It’s not cool and it’s not sustainable.

Genuinely curious why it's not cool or sustainable?

I've killed a few turkeys this way, but I'm open to having my mind changed if there's an ethical dilemma that I haven't considered.

 

[fatlander]

Genuinely curious why it's not cool or sustainable?

I've killed a few turkeys this way, but I'm open to having my mind changed if there's an ethical dilemma that I haven't considered.

1.) It’s a fantastic way to get shot in the face.

2.) It’s the easy button. Shooting them over bait would be harder.

3.) Wild turkey populations are plummeting across the country. There’s a myriad of reasons, but research out Dr. Mike Chamberlain’s UGA Wild Turkey lab has pointed to the widespread (and ever growing) practice of fanning (and hyper realistic male decoys) as a large culprit. Turkeys don’t breed the same way as mammals. They have a breeding ritual, and part of that ritual is establishing the dominance hierarchy. That hierarchy that takes weeks to establish. The dominant gobbler has many times more testosterone than sub dominant and jakes. His testosterone levels are a direct result of the dominance hierarchy being established. When the dominant gobbler is killed prior to all of his hens being bred, another gobbler can’t just step in; the breeding ritual must start over. When that happens while hens are laying, hens go unfertilized.

The problem with fanning is that it overwhelming targets and successful fools those dominant birds during the breeding cycle. Before fanning it was as rare as hens teeth to kill a limb hanging gobbler before May. That dominant bird was too busy breeding hens to ever be fooled in early in the season. The vast majority of birds killed during the breeding cycle were subdominant and not breeding hens anyway. We’ve flipped the script and turkeys are absolutely taking it in the shorts.

A handful of states have banned reaping and fanning in response the above research and population declines. Over a dozen more have it on the books as a consideration for ban before next spring.


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[Skerhunter]

Below is the strategy I use every year to kill turkeys with my bow. Never shot one out of a blind and hate sitting in them. It can be challenging because you need a “good spot” to set up vs. locate one and just sit on the ground with your back to any tree with a shotgun.

-sit on stool/3 leg chair 90 degrees from decoy (ready to shoot). Limits movement and is comfortable.
-sit in shade with lots of cover behind you. Don’t need a lot between you and the decoys. Cedars trees are best, but just something solid so you don’t break light.
-sit still, don’t draw until they strut, preferably when their fan blocks your view. If I see them or hear them coming at a distance, I get my bow up on my knee pointed towards decoys.
-decoys 15 yrd away, so if they strut past them they are will within 20 yards.
-try to shoot them facing you at base of neck with big mechanical. Body shots work, but not always.

 

[deerhunt1988]

3.) Wild turkey populations are plummeting across the country. There’s a myriad of reasons, but research out Dr. Mike Chamberlain’s UGA Wild Turkey lab has pointed to the widespread (and ever growing) practice of fanning (and hyper realistic male decoys) as a large culprit. Turkeys don’t breed the same way as mammals. They have a breeding ritual, and part of that ritual is establishing the dominance hierarchy. That hierarchy that takes weeks to establish. The dominant gobbler has many times more testosterone than sub dominant and jakes. His testosterone levels are a direct result of the dominance hierarchy being established. When the dominant gobbler is killed prior to all of his hens being bred, another gobbler can’t just step in; the breeding ritual must start over. When that happens while hens are laying, hens go unfertilized.

The problem with fanning is that it overwhelming targets and successful fools those dominant birds during the breeding cycle. Before fanning it was as rare as hens teeth to kill a limb hanging gobbler before May. That dominant bird was too busy breeding hens to ever be fooled in early in the season. The vast majority of birds killed during the breeding cycle were subdominant and not breeding hens anyway. We’ve flipped the script and turkeys are absolutely taking it in the shorts.

A handful of states have banned reaping and fanning in response the above research and population declines. Over a dozen more have it on the books as a consideration for ban before next spring.


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Spouting some false information here.

Firstly, I'm all for banning fanning. But from an ethics standpoint. I guess you could say safety too but if someone is dumb enough to do it I don't care if they get shot in the face.

States are banning it from the safety standpoint. Chamberlain's dominant gobbler THEORY is just that, a theory. You cannot find one peer reviewed publication proving his theory. Or that hens are going unfertilized. There is zero evidence. Be careful regurgitating what you hear on social media.. However there is more and more evidence emerging showing season timing IS NOT affecting reproductive success. A lot of states hopped on the Chamberlain bandwagon and made changes hoping it was the golden ticket, but are now finding out it wasn't.

Here's a great podcast from two respected researchers (just not as famous as Chamberlain became due to his Meateater appearance) discussing the results of a 7-year TN study on delayed seasons, reproductive success, etc. Findings = season delay had no effect.

Wild Turkey Science: Season timing doesn’t affect reproduction | #77 on Apple Podcasts

Show Wild Turkey Science, Ep Season timing doesn’t affect reproduction | #77 - May 6, 2024

podcasts.apple.com

And other states, such as MS, who have a March 15 opener and didn't cave to the dominant gobbler theory, are seeing the same.

I could go on and on with more state examples (Why did MO see a decline with one of the most conservation season frameworks in the US? Why hasn't Arkansas saw a giant leap in turkey numbers since they season changes over a decade ago?)

I just hate seeing theory spouted as fact in regards to turkey and the potential loss of hunting opportunities. It is amazing what social media has done to turkey hunting!!!!!

 

[fatlander]

Spouting some false information here.

Firstly, I'm all for banning fanning. But from an ethics standpoint. I guess you could say safety too but if someone is dumb enough to do it I don't care if they get shot in the face.

States are banning it from the safety standpoint. Chamberlain's dominant gobbler THEORY is just that, a theory. You cannot find one peer reviewed publication proving his theory. Or that hens are going unfertilized. There is zero evidence. Be careful regurgitating what you hear on social media.. However there is more and more evidence emerging showing season timing IS NOT affecting reproductive success. A lot of states hopped on the Chamberlain bandwagon and made changes hoping it was the golden ticket, but are now finding out it wasn't.

Here's a great podcast from two respected researchers (just not as famous as Chamberlain became due to his Meateater appearance) discussing the results of a 7-year TN study on delayed seasons, reproductive success, etc. Findings = season delay had no effect.

Wild Turkey Science: Season timing doesn’t affect reproduction | #77 on Apple Podcasts

Show Wild Turkey Science, Ep Season timing doesn’t affect reproduction | #77 - May 6, 2024

podcasts.apple.com

And other states, such as MS, who have a March 15 opener and didn't cave to the dominant gobbler theory, are seeing the same.

I could go on and on with more state examples (Why did MO see a decline with one of the most conservation season frameworks in the US? Why hasn't Arkansas saw a giant leap in turkey numbers since they season changes over a decade ago?)

I just hate seeing theory spouted as fact in regards to turkey and the potential loss of hunting opportunities. It is amazing what social media has done to turkey hunting!!!!!

Theories are well tested, objective and stand on their own, i.e, gravity, atomic, cell theory, evolution. Hypotheses are educated guesses that are subjective to a person hypothesizing.

You cherry picked my post, first and foremost was safety.

No matter how you cut it. We’re killing too many turkeys. We can hypothesize every reason why until the cows come home, but we’re killing more turkeys than we ever have each year and we’re recruiting less. I’m not a rocket scientist, but I do have an advanced ecological degree. Killing more and recruiting less is not sustainable. R3 and the money associated with has the state game and fish agencies by the balls. That’s why we’re losing turkeys.

Slowing down harvest is the lowest hanging fruit but THEY won’t do it. Most states are all on board for habitat and predator control until it comes time to actually do it. Then we’ve got to consider non hunters opinions on trapping and shooting fur bearing predators, can’t change modern agriculture, can’t slow down bulldozers building homes, and we can’t forget THE INCESSANT NEED TO RECRUIT MORE TURKEY HUNTERS. R3, smash that subscribe button baby.


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[deerhunt1988]

Theories are well tested, objective and stand on their own, i.e, gravity, atomic, cell theory, evolution. Hypotheses are educated guesses that are subjective to a person hypothesizing.

You cherry picked my post, first and foremost was safety.

No matter how you cut it. We’re killing too many turkeys. We can hypothesize every reason why until the cows come home, but we’re killing more turkeys than we ever have each year and we’re recruiting less. I’m not a rocket scientist, but I do have an advanced ecological degree. Killing more and recruiting less is not sustainable. R3 and the money associated with has the state game and fish agencies by the balls. That’s why we’re losing turkeys.

Slowing down harvest is the lowest hanging fruit but THEY won’t do it. Most states are all on board for habitat and predator control until it comes time to actually do it. Then we’ve got to consider non hunters opinions on trapping and shooting fur bearing predators, can’t change modern agriculture, can’t slow down bulldozers building homes, and we can’t forget THE INCESSANT NEED TO RECRUIT MORE TURKEY HUNTERS. R3, smash that subscribe button baby.


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We completely agree on 95% of things. Just not the dominant gobbler theory. And it blows my mind how so many easily influenced folks have come to accept it as fact. Social media, YouTube, and the R3 push is one of the worst things to ever happen to turkey hunting.

And if we are spouting credentials, I also have an advanced ecological degree and manage wildlife for a living.

 

[fatlander]

We completely agree on 95% of things. Just not the dominant gobbler theory. And it blows my mind how so many easily influenced folks have come to accept it as fact. Social media, YouTube, and the R3 push is one of the worst things to ever happen to turkey hunting.

And if we are spouting credentials, I also have an advanced ecological degree and manage wildlife for a living.

I feel for you. You’ve probably got the same gag order and have to self censor your true feelings on wildlife and fisheries management like every one I know that’s still working for a state agency.

Anecdotally, I’ve seen chamberlain’s hypothesis play out in real time. A farm I’ve hunted for over 20 years historically always had a robust turkey population. Multiple longbeards, jakes, and 20-30 hens each spring. A hen hasn’t been killed by a hunter there in at least 15 years, predators are no more prevalent than they’ve ever been, and early succession habitat is better than ever. There are no turkeys, absolutely zero, on that farm now.

What changed? Myself and/or one of my friends shooting a dominant gobbler over a DSD Jake opening weekend in the same field for 5 years in a row in the late 20 teens and early 20 twenties.


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[deerhunt1988]

Anecdotally, I’ve seen chamberlain’s hypothesis play out in real time. A farm I’ve hunted for over 20 years historically always had a robust turkey population. Multiple longbeards, jakes, and 20-30 hens each spring. A hen hasn’t been killed by a hunter there in at least 15 years, predators are no more prevalent than they’ve ever been, and early succession habitat is better than ever. There are no turkeys, absolutely zero, on that farm now.

What changed? Myself and/or one of my friends shooting a dominant gobbler over a DSD Jake opening weekend in the same field for 5 years in a row in the late 20 teens and early 20 twenties.


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That is definitely a mystery and another region I know of similar reports is south central TN. And the reason TWRA (Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency) funded their extensive turkey study. Areas that were once overflowing with turkey suddenly dry up in a 5-10 year stretch. Some of those counties are finally recovering now.

I live in a state where turkeys have been hunted as hard and as long as anywhere else in the country. With a March 15th opening date. And in the past 5 years every deer hunter has now turned into a turkey hunter further exacerbating the hunting pressure and harvest. This new breed simply deer hunts turkeys on food plots with the aid of bait and cellular cameras. I'm amazed and thrilled every time I see a longbeard post-season that survived the onslaught. After a near decade low number of turkeys just 2-3 years ago in my area, we are now sitting at near a decade high. All thanks to FINALLY getting some conducive weather during late spring and early summer. We also had disease run through in 2020 in which I sent off 3 turkey for testing and all 3 came back positive for Avian Pox and one for blackhead. It was an abnomaly wet summer as well and reproduction was as bad as I've ever witnessed. Not surprising, 2022 turkey season sucked and was one of the worst in a decade. But THANKFULLY, that summer we had one our best hatches in 20 years. And the yr prior (2021) had a decent hatch.. Followed by another decent hatch in 2023.. So we literally went from a decade low to a near decade high in just 2-3 years thanks to mother nature cooperating. Turkey populations are naturally cyclical and it seems a whole lot of people have forgot this, even some researchers.

I guess I say all that to say: If we were killing them before they bred and causing eggs to go unfertilized, Mississippi wouldn't have just had one of their best spring turkey seasons in a decade. And the same goes for a neighboring region in Alabama.

 

[Taudisio]

I really try to pay attention to how long the season has been running to decide what decoys to put out. This late in the season, either my lcd breeder hen, or lay down hen, or both if I’m not going for a super long walk. No more Jake decoys for the rest of the year. They are usually out the first few weeks but get put away as I’m seeing the birds get more and more shy

 

[fatlander]

That is definitely a mystery and another region I know of similar reports is south central TN. And the reason TWRA (Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency) funded their extensive turkey study. Areas that were once overflowing with turkey suddenly dry up in a 5-10 year stretch. Some of those counties are finally recovering now.

I live in a state where turkeys have been hunted as hard and as long as anywhere else in the country. With a March 15th opening date. And in the past 5 years every deer hunter has now turned into a turkey hunter further exacerbating the hunting pressure and harvest. This new breed simply deer hunts turkeys on food plots with the aid of bait and cellular cameras. I'm amazed and thrilled every time I see a longbeard post-season that survived the onslaught. After a near decade low number of turkeys just 2-3 years ago in my area, we are now sitting at near a decade high. All thanks to FINALLY getting some conducive weather during late spring and early summer. We also had disease run through in 2020 in which I sent off 3 turkey for testing and all 3 came back positive for Avian Pox and one for blackhead. It was an abnomaly wet summer as well and reproduction was as bad as I've ever witnessed. Not surprising, 2022 turkey season sucked and was one of the worst in a decade. But THANKFULLY, that summer we had one our best hatches in 20 years. And the yr prior (2021) had a decent hatch.. Followed by another decent hatch in 2023.. So we literally went from a decade low to a near decade high in just 2-3 years thanks to mother nature cooperating. Turkey populations are naturally cyclical and it seems a whole lot of people have forgot this, even some researchers.

I guess I say all that to say: If we were killing them before they bred and causing eggs to go unfertilized, Mississippi wouldn't have just had one of their best spring turkey seasons in a decade. And the same goes for a neighboring region in Alabama.

How common was it for limb hanging gobblers to die before the last week or so of the season before hyper realistic Jake decoys and fanning became as wide spread as they are now?

It was as rare as hens teeth in this part of the world, so rare that everyone in the county talked about it until the following season. It’s now common place to killed those 4+ year old gobblers as soon as the season opens. More of them are killed than ever before, and we’re recruiting less turkeys.

The dominant gobbler hypothesis might hold no water, but I’ve seen it myself in action.

What does hold water is we’re killing more turkeys than we ever have and we’re recruiting less. We have pointed to every reason except the 800 pound gorilla in the room that is over harvest. Environmental factors will largely always be out of the hunters and game managers reach on a large scale. Fanning, decoys, rifles, tss, information, and more hunters have all exploded during the decline. States don’t want to cut tag allocation and season length because that implies they’ve mismanaged the resource. My state doubles down on killing turkeys to not have egg on their face. We’ve 10 years of steadily declining broods with record lows the last 3 years, and while harvest has trending the exact opposite way.

Habitat improvement and predator management takes works. Cutting harvest, doesn’t. Stopping the practice of recruiting more hunters to a dwindling resource also takes zero work, and that outreach money could be allocated to the improving the landscape instead of further perpetuating the problem.


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[Bendejo]

I don't elk hunt, but is fanning a turkey kinda like bulging an elk? Same dominance short circuit?

 

[fatlander]

I don't elk hunt, but is fanning a turkey kinda like bulging an elk? Same dominance short circuit?

No. It’s like shooting them on an alfalfa center pivot with a spotlight.


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[VA Ridgerunner]

I'd certainly tip my hat to a hunter that can consistently have success with a bow the way I tend to hunt turkeys (mobile in the woods, calling them in, and without decoys). Those rascals are pretty keen and if they are already looking for you there isn't much room for error. I don't think I could get away with drawing a bow.

As some others have said, I suspect a decoy would be the ticket if you get the right bird.

 

[retrieverman]

I heard a group of turkeys on the way back to my deer stand last fall and did an impromptu stalk with a crossbow that surprisingly ended in success. Tall grass, a small washout, and high wind worked in my favor, and I was able to get within 37 yards. I had to belly crawl the last 30 yards and shoot from a prone position, so a vertical bow wouldn’t have worked.

 

[Jethro]

I think a decoy is necessary if not going to use a blind. My only action without a blind was last year. Got drawn when gobbler went behind a tree. Problem was the hen that I had let walk past caught me and sounded alarm. Gobbler did the nervous juke and was gone before could settle pin.

Fanning and shield type blinds both illegal in PA.

 

[CarlitoElPipo]

I'm planning on going hunting for turkey by just walking around without decoys. Definitely making me rethink the decision lol.

 

[Will_m]

It is amazing what social media has done to turkey hunting!!!!

This cannot be overstated.

 

[dtrkyman]

I will add some fuel to the fire, I have killed piles of long spurred turkeys before May, without DSD decoys or fanning.

Call it what you will, being a woodsman or being a good scout, hunting turkeys where they want to be is pretty simple, and calling them into where they are already going sure helps!

Of course this was on private property which greatly improves that strategy.

I am not typically for more regs but I am on board with no fanning, I know Michigan and PA it is illegal, where else?

I have seen some fools bumbling around heavily hunted public land with gobbler decoys, I am shocked that more folks are not shot lately, seems most accidents do not invlove fanning.

 

[sivart]

this is my go to for run and "bow" style. It stays in my turkey vest and it takes 30 seconds to deploy it. You have to kneel to shoot, but its fine. Otherwise Im in my blind, which I hate. I like being mobile. I did shoot a 19.1 lb with a 9-1/4" beard sunday out of my browning blind though, so cant complain.

Rig’Em Right® HydeOut™ Go

The Rig'Em Right® HydeOut™ Go biofold blind lets you fade into your surroundings. Available in Gore® Optifade® Timber and Gore® Optifade® Subalpine, The HydeOut is perfect for turkey, antelope, whitetail, and other big game hunts.

rigemright.com

Could you possibly give me the measurement of the windows on this blind? Curious of measurement from bottom of window to bottom of blind. I looks like they may be set a little low for me to shoot thru, even on my knees? Thanks

 

[MattB]

Don’t fan turkeys, no matter what the internet tells you. It’s not cool and it’s not sustainable.

?

Edit: saw this was already covered - with a broad brush.