First LR hunting rifle

[ddowning]

I'll jump in and say, the smart move, having shoot a lot of prs and done a little shooting game at long range, I would get something small to medium sized that is comfortable to shoot. After you have burned out a few barrels, add a big boomer and stretch it further.

More recoil is harder to shoot well and more expensive to practice with. I have several stocks, tl3 actions, and a bunch of barrels. I also have a rimx 22lr. Shooting 2k-5k centerfire rounds and 7k-25k rimfire rounds per year goes a long ways toward hitting things. I could never afford to shoot that much with a 300 mag. It is a lot easier to stomach with a 223 and a 22lr.

There was a benefit shoot this spring with an ipsc at 1407 yards and 1760 yards (1 mile). I was shooting a 28" 243 Ackley with 115 dtacs at 3150 fps. I hit the 1407 yard target on the second through 5th round. My wind call was right but my dope was high on the first shot. After that I went to the mile target. It was A LOT harder to hit. I managed to hit it a couple times in 10 shots.

My point is, 1200 yards isn't as far as you think. You do not need a 300 mag to ring steel at 1200 yards. Get something short action and get multiple barrels and bolt heads for it. Get a 223 barrel and a 6.5 prc or 7 saum barrel if you want something big to mess with. Get a barrel vice and action wrench and you are all set. You need to be able to practice to be proficient at long range killing. A magnum cartridge will not be a sufficient substitute for practice. The beating and number of barrels to get sufficient practice with a 300 mag is significant. Not to mention the ammo cost. Most people will not do it even if they have the time and the money.

 

[Novahunter]

For a rifle you can build up over time under $2,000 then probably grab a Tikka of your preferred flavor I suppose. Seekins PH2 rifles are nice under $2000 but they're not as lightweight as you seem to want (7 pounds) and the way the action is you can't easily use the R700 ecosystem of stocks/chassis. If you're looking to tinker with it and maybe experiment with stocks/chassis/triggers etc and you want to keep it below $2,000 Tikka would be the move. For under $3,000 I'd start involving the R700 pattern custom actions but that's not as feasible under your pricepoint.

Do yourself a big favor and don't go with a big boomer like a 300WM for this sort of rifle. You won't enjoy shooting it and the ammo costs more than smaller cartridges, so you'll shoot it less. Then you won't be as good with it. In my admittedly useless opinion, don't go with anything bigger than a 6.5PRC for this.

For the scope an easy button you could do for under $2,000 would be a NX8 4-32x50. People seem to like them a lot. If you're a godless heathen that likes MOA, there happens to be a like-new demo on sale at EuroOptic for $275 off if that makes a difference.

Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 MOAR Like New Demo Riflescope C624

FREE SHIPPING on Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 MOAR Like New Demo Riflescope C624

www.eurooptic.com

Definitely heed this advice. I didn't. My rifle was a Rem 700 BDL in 300 RUM.

I was arrogant, thought I could shoot it. I learned horrible habits from the rifle, ammo costs got stupid expensive, I only shot a few rounds a year. Ended up wounding and not recovering lots of deer over about 10 years.

I stepped down to a .308 shorty with a brake after finally admitting how bad of a hunter and shooter I was. Re-learned to shoot. That little .308 is crazy accurate. I can shoot it accurately and it's taken everything from coyotes to deer to moose.

 

[wstribling]

The double bulge! What about it is hard to handle?

Definitely not hard to handle just uncomfortable

 

[wstribling]

I'll jump in and say, the smart move, having shoot a lot of prs and done a little shooting game at long range, I would get something small to medium sized that is comfortable to shoot. After you have burned out a few barrels, add a big boomer and stretch it further.

More recoil is harder to shoot well and more expensive to practice with. I have several stocks, tl3 actions, and a bunch of barrels. I also have a rimx 22lr. Shooting 2k-5k centerfire rounds and 7k-25k rimfire rounds per year goes a long ways toward hitting things. I could never afford to shoot that much with a 300 mag. It is a lot easier to stomach with a 223 and a 22lr.

There was a benefit shoot this spring with an ipsc at 1407 yards and 1760 yards (1 mile). I was shooting a 28" 243 Ackley with 115 dtacs at 3150 fps. I hit the 1407 yard target on the second through 5th round. My wind call was right but my dope was high on the first shot. After that I went to the mile target. It was A LOT harder to hit. I managed to hit it a couple times in 10 shots.

My point is, 1200 yards isn't as far as you think. You do not need a 300 mag to ring steel at 1200 yards. Get something short action and get multiple barrels and bolt heads for it. Get a 223 barrel and a 6.5 prc or 7 saum barrel if you want something big to mess with. Get a barrel vice and action wrench and you are all set. You need to be able to practice to be proficient at long range killing. A magnum cartridge will not be a sufficient substitute for practice. The beating and number of barrels to get sufficient practice with a 300 mag is significant. Not to mention the ammo cost. Most people will not do it even if they have the time and the money.

I do appreciate the advice, I was looking at both. Something like the Springfield 2020 in 6.5 Creedmoor. The 300WM would be a gun that I could just shoot anything and feel confident with. I do like the idea of having multiple barrels and tools to with things out.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I do appreciate the advice, I was looking at both. Something like the Springfield 2020 in 6.5 Creedmoor. The 300WM would be a gun that I could just shoot anything and feel confident with. I do like the idea of having multiple barrels and tools to with things out.

The Springfield would be the opposite of something you could tinker with and upgrade. The aftermarket ecosystem for anything that's not R700/Tikka pattern is almost nonexistent. If you want to buy a factory rifle and not touch it, get a Seekins. If you want to possibly upgrade things about it as time goes on (and want to keep things below $2,000) then get a Tikka. You could always try a Bergara since it's R700 pattern and affordable if you absolutely don't want to do Tikka.

 

[wind gypsy]

Definitely not hard to handle just uncomfortable

Is it uncomfortable or just different than what you’re used to? To me they are very comfortable when it comes to putting your hand in the right position to make good trigger presses and pull the rifle straight back into your shoulder.

 

[Macintosh]

… I want something that I can hike 12 miles with, so light weight but I can take to than range and have fun with as well.

Leaning towards a 300WM.

What other rifles do you have? Regardless of where you land on the big gun versus little gun debate, I think it’s pretty much proven at this point that standard short action cartridges are perfectly capable of taking big game including elk ethically and effectively out past ranges where most people have any business shooting. Maybe a 300 winmag makes sense if you already have a similar rifle that you practice with, but to me a lightweight 300winmag is a terrible, terrible idea for a one-gun stable if you intend to practice much. if any significant amount of practice is on the menu, I personally NEED something that is significantly easier in the recoil department, and that either means a much heavier rifle or a smaller cartridge, or both. Even with a brake, a light 300 win mag will really start to fatigue you after a relatively small number of rounds. Not to mention it’s just expensive to shoot. If at some point you decide you need a bigger cartridge it could make sense as a second rifle, but if your idea of practicing is anything remotely like mine, it makes no sense as a “one rifle to both practice and hunt with”. Not for me, anyway.

I am not stuck to any one brand and Im looking at starting the process relatively slowly. I know any rifle I get will out perform me but if I could ring steel at 1200+ meters that would be awesome. For hunting purposes Im not too sure as everything I have hunted has been >500 meters.

Main questions would be:
What is a solid rifle to start with
What has someone else "built" similar to this

Any good quality off the shelf rifle and a quality scope is going to do what you want. You could do a lot worse than an off the shelf stainless Tikka or similar quality rifle, a good set of rings, nightforce or trijicon first focal plane scope, and maybe an aftermarket stock. That would all fit comfortably in your budget, quality is good enough that its not a given there’d be much functional benefit to future upgrades, but if you decide you need to there are still plenty of good options available. If upgrading a bunch of stuff down the road is a high priority, Remington 700 clones or a Tikka seem like the most solid options, with other makes just not having nearly as much aftermarket support. Search around this forum and you’ll find dozens upon dozens of examples of rifles like this that regularly get used practicing out past 1000 yards and hunting out plenty far. Heres a start, if you search a bit you’ll find lots: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/lets-see-your-semi-custom-tikka-builds.92404/

The tip: what I’ve learned is that as I gain more experience and try different equipment, what I thought I needed is often not what is best-suited to how I use it. It’s entirely likely that after you buy a rifle and practice shooting at longer range for a year (and/or get legit instruction), you come to the conclusion that what you really need is something different than you initially thought, and rather than modifying what you have it might even make more sense to start fresh. That’s totally normal, so unless you have ONE specific use in mind, starting with a platform that is a good versatile baseline, can be readily modified or built off-of, and also is very useable and holds decent resale value as-is, is a pretty good idea. The time for specialized or niche stuff (which to me includes a really lightweight .30 magnum) is down the road after I have my own experience-based perspective on exactly what I want different or in addition.

 

[wstribling]

What other rifles do you have? Regardless of where you land on the big gun versus little gun debate, I think it’s pretty much proven at this point that standard short action cartridges are perfectly capable of taking big game including elk ethically and effectively out past ranges where most people have any business shooting. Maybe a 300 winmag makes sense if you already have a similar rifle that you practice with, but to me a lightweight 300winmag is a terrible, terrible idea for a one-gun stable if you intend to practice much. if any significant amount of practice is on the menu, I personally NEED something that is significantly easier in the recoil department, and that either means a much heavier rifle or a smaller cartridge, or both. Even with a brake, a light 300 win mag will really start to fatigue you after a relatively small number of rounds. Not to mention it’s just expensive to shoot. If at some point you decide you need a bigger cartridge it could make sense as a second rifle, but if your idea of practicing is anything remotely like mine, it makes no sense as a “one rifle to both practice and hunt with”. Not for me, anyway.



Any good quality off the shelf rifle and a quality scope is going to do what you want. You could do a lot worse than an off the shelf stainless Tikka or similar quality rifle, a good set of rings, nightforce or trijicon first focal plane scope, and maybe an aftermarket stock. That would all fit comfortably in your budget, quality is good enough that its not a given there’d be much functional benefit to future upgrades, but if you decide you need to there are still plenty of good options available. If upgrading a bunch of stuff down the road is a high priority, Remington 700 clones or a Tikka seem like the most solid options, with other makes just not having nearly as much aftermarket support. Search around this forum and you’ll find dozens upon dozens of examples of rifles like this that regularly get used practicing out past 1000 yards and hunting out plenty far. Heres a start, if you search a bit you’ll find lots: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/lets-see-your-semi-custom-tikka-builds.92404/

The tip: what I’ve learned is that as I gain more experience and try different equipment, what I thought I needed is often not what is best-suited to how I use it. It’s entirely likely that after you buy a rifle and practice shooting at longer range for a year (and/or get legit instruction), you come to the conclusion that what you really need is something different than you initially thought, and rather than modifying what you have it might even make more sense to start fresh. That’s totally normal, so unless you have ONE specific use in mind, starting with a platform that is a good versatile baseline, can be readily modified or built off-of, and also is very useable and holds decent resale value as-is, is a pretty good idea. The time for specialized or niche stuff (which to me includes a really lightweight .30 magnum) is down the road after I have my own experience-based perspective on exactly what I want different or in addition.

Well this whole thread now has me reconsidering a 300wm thats for sure. As far as guns I have a lot (wife says too many which I guess is also the running joke) but rifles I have a 223 ruger m77 a rem 700 in 270 and a rugged scout in 308. I do want to move to a nicer shooting 6.5 as a gun I would use the most and stretch the legs on but the thought of a large 30 cal sounds fun (admittedly terrible to shoot).

 

[wstribling]

Is it uncomfortable or just different than what you’re used to? To me they are very comfortable when it comes to putting your hand in the right position to make good trigger presses and pull the rifle straight back into your shoulder.

To be honest I shouldered one at the shop in Durango for all of 10 minutes so it could be either. It was definitely different and could easily be I wasn't use to it. With that said- I have talked to a good amount of people who have them and they usually say something along the lines of - "I love it but the palm swell is odd/strange/uncomfortable/etc"

 

[JohnJohnson]

Well this whole thread now has me reconsidering a 300wm thats for sure. As far as guns I have a lot (wife says too many which I guess is also the running joke) but rifles I have a 223 ruger m77 a rem 700 in 270 and a rugged scout in 308. I do want to move to a nicer shooting 6.5 as a gun I would use the most and stretch the legs on but the thought of a large 30 cal sounds fun (admittedly terrible to shoot).

It's difficult to put your trust in internet strangers but when trying to do things properly on a first LR build, go with the consensus. There will be future opportunities to get creative in putting together another rifle, this is not that time. I learned that the hard way by spending many thousands of dollars and only recently have started correcting things.

 

[wstribling]

It's difficult to put your trust in internet strangers but when trying to do things properly on a first LR build, go with the consensus. There will be future opportunities to get creative in putting together another rifle, this is not that time. I learned that the hard way by spending many thousands of dollars and only recently have started correcting things.

Thats definitely a good point- I know trying to combine both prs and hunting is already a stretch but I was holding out hope. It sounds like a 6.5 CM is possibly the better option. I think the 6.5PRC is a bit too hot.

 

[cowdisciple]

Well this whole thread now has me reconsidering a 300wm thats for sure. As far as guns I have a lot (wife says too many which I guess is also the running joke) but rifles I have a 223 ruger m77 a rem 700 in 270 and a rugged scout in 308. I do want to move to a nicer shooting 6.5 as a gun I would use the most and stretch the legs on but the thought of a large 30 cal sounds fun (admittedly terrible to shoot).

A 6.5PRC with factory ammo gets you 140/147gr ELDMs at 1800FPS over 800 yards... Still too expensive to shoot enough to be effective at that range (at least for me). Pair it with an identical fast twist .223 and you're really in business.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Thats definitely a good point- I know trying to combine both prs and hunting is already a stretch but I was holding out hope.

I cannot stress this enough, do not try to build a do-it-all rifle. You are speaking to a monumental dumbass that tried to do that and ended up with a 17 pound rifle with a carbon barrel that was too heavy for most hunting and not balanced properly for heavy PRS-style shooting. Just put together a rifle that's good for the hunting side of things to start with, then you can go to an NRL Hunter match or something to try it out.

I have a rifle build on order that when everything is put on it, will be about 19-20 pounds and perfectly balanced for PRS style shooting. When the time comes, I'll put together a less expensive and lighter rifle for purely hunting purposes. In the meantime my hunting rifle will be a R700 custom that I cut the barrel down to 16.5" on and total rifle weight will be 15 pounds. I have spent a fair bit of dumb money to learn these lessons that I hope you can avoid having to learn by firsthand experience.

 

[wstribling]

I cannot stress this enough, do not try to build a do-it-all rifle. You are speaking to a monumental dumbass that tried to do that and ended up with a 17 pound rifle with a carbon barrel that was too heavy for most hunting and not balanced properly for heavy PRS-style shooting. Just put together a rifle that's good for the hunting side of things to start with, then you can go to an NRL Hunter match or something to try it out.

I have a rifle build on order that when everything is put on it, will be about 19-20 pounds and perfectly balanced for PRS style shooting. When the time comes, I'll put together a less expensive and lighter rifle for purely hunting purposes. In the meantime my hunting rifle will be a R700 custom that I cut the barrel down to 16.5" on and total rifle weight will be 15 pounds. I have spent a fair bit of dumb money to learn these lessons that I hope you can avoid having to learn by firsthand experience.

I found a proof MTR in 6.5prc that Im leaning towards- would that be a decent do all? I know PRC ammo is pricey but besides that.

 

[sodaksooner]

A couple questions:
What scope is that?
How can you handle the double sided bulge? I loved everything on the PH but pistol grip double bulge threw me off.
Besides the length of your range- do you think there is any other reason this couldn't shoot further? 1000?

Older vortex Razor LH 3 x 15. Discontinued but replaced by the LHT. Old one was a 1" tube. New one is 30mm I think. Vortex doesn't get much love here, but it has held up well on 2 rifles and 5 years.

The grip threw me for a minute but I like it now.

It is easily a 1000 yard rifle. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it at that range if I had the real estate. We can shoot 1000 yards at our range but it's like one Sat morning a month as they have to close everything down at the rest of the complex.....and it's for military matches, so you can't just go shoot.

I shoot 178's and get just under 3100 fps.

 

[philson208]

I would echo what has already been said here. I have a 1:8 twist 243 that matches my 300wm ballistically out to 800 yards. 243 is about half the cost to shoot as my 300 wm and is more manageable and lighter w way less recoil. my 223 is at 1,800 fps at 600 yards and the 243 is at 1,800 fps at 800 yards and my 300wm is at 1,800 fps at 800 yards as well.

 

[wabash503]

Light weight and 300 WM = a lot of recoil. What do you plan to hunt with said rifle? If it's multiple species, which one will you hunt the most and how often?

 

[venus8892]

You can start out with the Ruger American Predator 308 gen 1, with either an Athlon 2-12 or a Bushnell MP 6-24, and Vortex Pro rings. Good luck.

 

[wstribling]

After doing more in-depth searching- I think what I was looking for is a Gunwerks clone. In the sense that its lighter weight and shoots "far".

 

[wind gypsy]

After doing more in-depth searching- I think what I was looking for is a Gunwerks clone. In the sense that its lighter weight and shoots "far".

They all shoot "far". Gunwerks and much of the market have tricked consumers into thinking they can buy "long range". The better products really just make it easier for shooters to perform the basics well - breaking a trigger without disturbing the POA, Impart consistent forces on the weapon shot to shot, and manage recoil. Most of that is still on the shooter but the gunwerks stock designs are more optimized than most all others to make it easier.

The avg dude still grabs a rifle off the shelf and judges stock shape an fit by how it feels going from holding to shoulder, as if that means anything for shooting it well. The grip on a seekins for example makes it easier for shooter's hands to relax and break triggers. It doesn't make the rifle more accurate, it makes it easier for the shooter to not eff it up so it's "good for long range".

What you want is:
- Reliable, stable, rifle platform - Doesn't shift in stock/bedding causing shifts in zero, everything stays tight
- Stock shape that makes it easier to make good 90 degree trigger presses straight back without disturbing sight, makes it easier to avoid torqueing, and facilitates good recoil management
- Cartridge with recoil level that will allow for shooter to want to get reps, minimize recoil induced error (which is much more than shot anticipation/flinching), and spot shots. Ideally cartridge should be consistent with minimal fuss which to me usually means not too overbore.