I dont understand the hostility towards wolf reintroduction in Colorado

[CBar]

As expected, first predation event. The article details that under newly formed Colorado statute to reimburse ranchers for loss to wolves, only $15,000 per rancher per year is permitted. If this wolf gets a taste for calves during calving season, it wouldn’t take long to surpass that allocation…

First wolf attack since reintroduction confirmed by Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Investigators found significant signs of a wolf attack during their investigation, including paw prints.

www.kkco11news.com

fwiw this could easily be one of the several documented wolves not reintroduced this year, but crossed naturally from Wyomings population.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

If I'm not mistaken, and this is my biggest worry. It is less about the reintroduction, (they are already moving in on their own), but more about how Colorado will plan to manage the populations. We need to focus on making clear guidelines for what constitutes "reintroduced" we need to be able to take them off the endangered list here ASAP, and be able to regulate their populations via normal North American Wildlife Conservation models.

If we can't manage the populations, we'll for sure see negative effects on elk, moose, and deer populations before they have a chance to change their habits based around a new, formerly absent predator. We haven't had a pack hunting threat in the Colorado mountains for a very long time. The animals here don't remember what it is like to run from those kinds of threats. They'll be at a major disadvantage for a good period of time before they learn to change their habits to accommodate the new threat.

I'm no expert, and no biologist, I know there are some benefits to having them, and some negatives. The other main issue with reintroduction in Colorado, is the fact that we already have a booming and arguably over-populated lion and black bear population set. And Colorado is trying to further restrict predator hunting which is going to further cripple, not only undulate populations, but also hunter contributions and conservation fund loss because fewer people will have desire to hunt here now.

Nailed it.

Shameless plug for CRWM.

www.savethehuntcolorado.com

 

[Elkangle]

Introduction of wolves was so successful we made the lower 48s only caribou herd extinct. Congrats

 

[JBahr]

Bringing this one back up considering the recent articles I've seen...

CONTEXT: 2.8 Million Cattle in Colorado. Two Calves Killed This Year at the Paws of a Wolf

Wolves have killed just two calves in Colorado so far this year, and though much has been made of the deaths, they are statistically insignificant. The odds of a calf...

coloradotimesrecorder.com

Then the swift response from the reintroduced wolves, who clearly read the above article, and responded "Hold my Beer" and killed 4 yearlings for sport the day after the article came out...

Colorado wolves kill 4 more cows in Grand County, increasing livestock losses

Four more yearling cows killed by wolves in Grand County, Colorado. Colorado Parks and Wildlife offers compensation for animal's market value.

www.coloradopolitics.com

 

[Maxhunter]

I live in Wyoming and we’ve put up with wolves for quite some time. Like stated they prey on herds pretty hard.

The reason people want them especially non hunters is because they look all cute and cuddly per the anti’s and media propaganda.

The bottom line is anti’s want them to manage the herds and leave the sportsman out of the equation. You need to realize that taxpayers and Pittman-Robertson funds are be utilized to fund these programs.

 

[IDVortex]

Introduction of wolves was so successful we made the lower 48s only caribou herd extinct. Congrats

Sadly, this is something that isn't talked about.

 

[Customweld]

Sadly, this is something that isn't talked about.

When I was in Jr High (‘87), my biology class partnered with IFG and“adopted” one of the Woodland Caribou. We got reports once a month of where he had been and other info that 7th grade kids couldn’t care less about. I believe he was eaten by a cat in ‘90. Back then their enemy was loggers. Little did they know that USFWS and the Nez Perce were going to introduce the devil 4 short years later.

 

[Clark33]

We need one of the conservation groups to buy a bunch of ad space and show commercials of wolves eating their prey a$$ first while its still alive. Show the environmentalist city dwellers a bit of reality.

 

[JBahr]

Another depredation event...

The toll of Colorado's wolf war: Rancher says Grand County on edge after wolf kills

Conway Farrell was a reluctant public player in the wolf depredation game until his fifth cattle loss in 11 days to wolves. He's silent no more.

www.coloradoan.com

The Governor justifying the event "Voters know the wolves would kill cattle" I would bet not a single yes voter owned cattle....

https://kdvr.com/news/politics/polis-addresses-latest-wolf-depredation-in-colorado/

And finally (older article, but relevant..) still no definition of "chronic depredation" and when it appears we have a wolf fitting the definition of other states, like Oregon where we sourced the wolves, the goal posts are moved.

One of Colorado’s reintroduced wolves is dead, another is likely expecting pups

Adult male gray wolf that northern Colorado ranchers want killed because it is preying on cattle is safe from “lethal control” because it is likely the mate to a wolf that appears to be denning...

www.vaildaily.com

This is the playbook... Dead Horse... Meet Bat... no end in sight.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Another depredation event...

The toll of Colorado's wolf war: Rancher says Grand County on edge after wolf kills

Conway Farrell was a reluctant public player in the wolf depredation game until his fifth cattle loss in 11 days to wolves. He's silent no more.

www.coloradoan.com

The Governor justifying the event "Voters know the wolves would kill cattle" I would bet not a single yes voter owned cattle....

https://kdvr.com/news/politics/polis-addresses-latest-wolf-depredation-in-colorado/

And finally (older article, but relevant..) still no definition of "chronic depredation" and when it appears we have a wolf fitting the definition of other states, like Oregon where we sourced the wolves, the goal posts are moved.

One of Colorado’s reintroduced wolves is dead, another is likely expecting pups

Adult male gray wolf that northern Colorado ranchers want killed because it is preying on cattle is safe from “lethal control” because it is likely the mate to a wolf that appears to be denning...

www.vaildaily.com

This is the playbook... Dead Horse... Meet Bat... no end in sight.

Polis is so full of it. No, voters likely didn’t understand the total impact reintroduced wolves would have on livestock. Most of those voters live in urban and suburban areas and have limited knowledge or interest in cattle. Wolf proponents were intentionally dishonest, misleading uninformed front range voters to believe that reintroducing wolves would have little to no impact on livestock. Polis backed the wolf proponents. He couldn’t care less about ranchers and seeks their demise.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Here and on quite a few other public forums I've observed hostility towards the reintroduction of wolves in CO. Call me ignorant or dumb but I really dont understand the hate. I can understand the " THESE DENVER LIBTARDS WHO KNOW NOTHING GOT TO VOTE ON BLAHBLAH BLAH." perspective, but other than that I don't think its a net negative to the ecosystem, the state, ranchers, or hunters. Now I understand that there may be an argument that broadly suggests that "they're the wrong wolves" but i am not educated enough on the ecology and the actual impact of different wolf sub species on wild life or the ecosystem. If i am not mistaken, I think ranchers are reimbursed for livestock killed by wolves. If this is the case is there really a cost to the re introduction.
In the hunting perspective I also Don't think that reintroduction is negative. Multiple states have healthy wolf populations and still have healthy game populations. I imagine that a good wolf population would solve the issue of private land owners with massive swaths of land essentially having a monopoly on elk and deer in an area and capitalizing on it by charging ridiculous access fees. Broadly I think that predation by wolves on elk and deer will cause these animals to migrate in ways that are consistent with their historic patters of movement, effectively disbursing them in a way that is beneficial to your average public land hunter.

All that being said. While we are at it we should also reintroduce grizzlies to their historic range and buffalos too.

Im sure my opinion will get hated on but i hope this spurs a productive conversation that conveys nuances that I may not be aware of.


Edit.
Getting stabbed with a rusty blade by a gizz in the middle of the woods is better than getting mauled by a crack head in downtown Denver.




EDIT 2


ill add this to both sides of the thread.


I'll try to make this short. As I mentioned in my original comment, I am not an expert so I a speaking broadly when I share my opinions and perspectives. I didn't expect this thread to blowup as much as it did, and it really did show me the good, bad and ugly of the Rokslide community which i am very fond of. That being said, I didn't have the time to go through and read every article linked or dive into the depths of the internet to find what there was.

To me the most compelling parts of the anti wolf argument stem from the perspective that a wolf is a human competition for food. Taking this idea and running with it a bit more, i would estimate that the people who share this perspective use or plan to use or would like to use hunting as their primary source of meat. So maintaining this logic, why would you introduce competition that is quite literally taking food off of your plate? In most cases the data reflects that when wolves come into an area hunter success goes down.

This argument alone has had a major influence on my opinion.

In addition to the aforementioned, the anecdotes shared by those of you who are closer to the ranching community about the ineffectiveness of the "reimbursement" programs in various states opened my eyes quite a bit. In hindsight it should have been obvious because having worked for the gov in various capacities I personally know that getting what you need when you need it is like banging your head against a brick wall. These anecdotes shared the fact that cows grazing on public land aren't baby sat throughout the season and so a rancher might be down X number of animals and not know it for weeks of months, making it even more difficult to prove to the governing parties that an animal was a victim of predation.

The next issue would be the seemingly shady way that the wolves were introduced in CO. particularly the fact that there very likely were already wolves in the state and the state felt it necessary to add more instead of allowing wolves to continue to naturally filter south as they likely wood. The fact that there is NO management plan for them seems indicative that there is no desire to allow harvesting of wolves in CO ever.

After stewing on it I fall into the slightly anti wolf crowd. Though I am not in favor of the method or means of (re)introduction. I don't think wolves are completely terrible. I think it would have been better to allow them to continue to trickle into CO and implement a robust managment plan that takes into account multiple perspectives.

That being said I appreciate the love and hate that i got from the members here. The next pot I want to stir why is there so much hate for adult onset hunters among the saltier members.

P.s. I was asked and prodded about my signature. Its a joke that plays on 2 things, one being the fact that I am almost certainly the only Haitian born person on this site. On the other hand I knew from the second I made my account I knew there would be very little overlap in what I and most of the members here agree on besides hunting = good. There are some here who can't take a joke but thats okay.

I got alot out of this discussion.

Theres so much more to unpack but I have to go do nerd things now.

YES!! SHORT !!

You know nothing John Snow.

 

[Gobbler36]

I am going to go out on a limb and say you just started "hunting" the last five years and have seen every episode of Meat Eater.

As soon as anyone starts throwing the word nuance around I assume this

 

[Loo.wii]

As soon as anyone starts throwing the word nuance around I assume this

I don’t see a problem with starting a hobby later in life?

 

[IDVortex]

I don’t see a problem with starting a hobby later in life?

I agree, we all need to pickup wolf hunting as a hobby, especially if one is going to say they enjoy big game hunting.

 

[CJ19]

Small ranching community tears itself apart over newly-released wolves

A small ranching community in Colorado has torn itself apart as newly-released wolves have butchered an astonishing amount of cattle in just days.

www.dailymail.co.uk

so far the reintroduction is going exactly as planned

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Look into the current state of the Whitetail Deer Population (and the hunting) in Northern WI after they reintroduced wolves. You’ll realize pretty quickly why most don’t want wolves reintroduced.

Libtards will file lawsuit after lawsuit preventing a hunting season on those wolves to control their population. They WILL multiply quickly being unchecked. They WILL eat deer, elk, moose, etc year round until there are very little left.

 

[CJ19]

Look into the current state of the Whitetail Deer Population (and the hunting) in Northern WI after they reintroduced wolves. You’ll realize pretty quickly why most don’t want wolves reintroduced.

Libtards will file lawsuit after lawsuit preventing a hunting season on those wolves to control their population. They WILL multiply quickly being unchecked. They WILL eat deer, elk, moose, etc year round until there are very little left.

I dont know. I read from the experts on hunttalk that people who think woofs eat deer are misinformed.

 

[mt terry d]

Small ranching community tears itself apart over newly-released wolves

A small ranching community in Colorado has torn itself apart as newly-released wolves have butchered an astonishing amount of cattle in just days.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So, has the sheriff been emasculated or something?