I need better sleep

[Brightwhite]

What do you do to ensure maximum rest at night? I have been in a rut of sleeping for about 4 hours then I wake up and feel like I'm ready to workout at 2am, then I toss and turn for a few hours, but eventually fall back into deep sleep. But then when the alarm goes off at 6:30-7am I am tired, have a hard time waking up, and fell like I could sleep for another 3 hours.

This pattern has been going on for 6+ months and has not just changed recently due to supplements, change in diet, etc. I've lost about 20 pounds, have cut out drinking except for a little on the weekends with friends, I've been eating great with no carbs past 2-3pm in the afternoon, little to no sugar, etc.

I feel really healthy except for I know I'm not getting a solid 7-8 hours every night like I should be.

What are your ideas and routines that you like to use to ensure a good nights rest?

 

[hunting1]

Stay away from caffeine! Try using Benadryl to sleep. If it works for you it is safe and will allow you to function the next day. Don't work out late at night either since that can wire you too.

Good luck!

 

[Eagle]

Rather than cutting out carbs after 2-3 pm, check out carb back loading, which advocates eating the majority of your carbs right before bed on the nights before you have a heavy lifting session the next day. The carbs will help you sleep.

If that's not for you, try a low dose of melatonin (1-3 mg) before bed each night.

 

[Brightwhite]

Stay away from caffeine! Try using Benadryl to sleep. If it works for you it is safe and will allow you to function the next day. Don't work out late at night either since that can wire you too.

Good luck!

The only caffeine I ingest is the Mountain Ops Blaze, which is part of my supplement/diet plan. I take a dose right when I get up around 6:30/7am, then again around 11am-noon just before my lunch. Again, my poor sleeping has been occurring long before I started the blaze supplement. I don't drink any coffee, cokes, tea, etc. Water water water for me.

 

[Brightwhite]

Rather than cutting out carbs after 2-3 pm, check out carb back loading, which advocates eating the majority of your carbs right before bed on the nights before you have a heavy lifting session the next day. The carbs will help you sleep.

If that's not for you, try a low dose of melatonin (1-3 mg) before bed each night.

I've never heard of doing that with carbs. I have been slowly shifting towards more of a paleo diet. I would guess that 70% of my meals are pale (or at least intend to be, but I will admit I am not a seasoned expert), and I try to have my carbs with bfast and lunch. Depending on the day, my carb intake has only been around 100g.

I've never tried melatonin...I may pick some of that up today and try it. Don't think it could hurt anything trying it.

 

[Poser]

Could be a sign of overtraining. I've struggled with this quite a bit in the past. The first thing to do is take 3-4 days off (some light, active recovery workouts would be acceptable) and see if your sleep stabilizes. From there:

Step 1. Chamomile tea before bed.
Step 2. Magnesium supplement before bed.
Step 3. Combination of #1 and #2.

You can also try valerian root added to your tea.

If your sleep does indeed stabilize, listen to your body. If you have trouble sleeping (which I did last night), take the next day off from training (which I am doing today) whether you planned to or not. If you hit that state of restless sleep, more training will only make it worse the next night. It can be difficult to make yourself rest when you don't want to. I find the interval training to be quite addictive and rely on it to relieve work stress and aggression, but recovery is greater than 50% of training, so it has to be prioritized or you are just digging yourself further into a hole with lessened, minimal and even negative return. I've been there and it sucks.

 

[FreeRange]

If you're going to try melatonin read up on how to take it and about the effects of light, even artificial, once you've taken it. I used to take it when I worked 6pm to 6am for 28 days straight as it was hard for me to adjust my sleep schedule, some coworkers had bad experiences with melatonin and I think it was because they were not paying attention to how you're supposed to use it.

 

[Brightwhite]

Could be a sign of overtraining. I've struggled with this quite a bit in the past. The first thing to do is take 3-4 days off (some light, active recovery workouts would be acceptable) and see if your sleep stabilizes. From there:

Step 1. Chamomile tea before bed.
Step 2. Magnesium supplement before bed.
Step 3. Combination of #1 and #2.

You can also try valerian root added to your tea.

If your sleep does indeed stabilize, listen to your body. If you have trouble sleeping (which I did last night), take the next day off from training (which I am doing today) whether you planned to or not. If you hit that state of restless sleep, more training will only make it worse the next night. It can be difficult to make yourself rest when you don't want to. I find the interval training to be quite addictive and rely on it to relieve work stress and aggression, but recovery is greater than 50% of training, so it has to be prioritized or you are just digging yourself further into a hole with lessened, minimal and even negative return. I've been there and it sucks.

How many MG's of Magnesium would you suggest/are you taking?

Thanks for the insight on interval training and recovery. I have a fair amount of experience with it, but that was back when I was in my 20's, so recovery probably wasn't as big of an issue as it is now in my mid-30's. My plan would probably be (haven't really laid it out completely) to alternate a full body interval day with some active recovery like a hike, some stairs at a stadium, running on the treadmill to mitigate joint wear and tear, etc. 3 days of interval with 3 days of active recovery and 1 complete rest day should be plenty wouldn't you think?

 

[Brightwhite]

If you're going to try melatonin read up on how to take it and about the effects of light, even artificial, once you've taken it. I used to take it when I worked 6pm to 6am for 28 days straight as it was hard for me to adjust my sleep schedule, some coworkers had bad experiences with melatonin and I think it was because they were not paying attention to how you're supposed to use it.

I will, thank you. I assume by light, you mean avoiding the "blue" lights of cell phones and TV's a few hours before bed?

 

[Take-a-knee]

Could be a sign of overtraining. .

The best way to self-diagnose this is to take (and record) your resting pulse, every morning, BEFORE you get out of bed, IE, still horizontal in bed. An 8-10 BPM increase indicates elevated cortisol

 

[FreeRange]

I will, thank you. I assume by light, you mean avoiding the "blue" lights of cell phones and TV's a few hours before bed?

For more than one reason, yes, it's a good idea to avoid screens. For one the light causes your body to reduce natural melatonin output that should be occurring during those hours after the sun sets. For two, if you're taking melatonin and are around such light it will really confuse your body about what it should be doing, also it can reportedly cause depression. When you take melatonin you're telling your body it's night time and it's time to go to sleep.

I used it to get me through that mid-sleep restlessness you're describing. After a 12 hr shift working hard I had no problem falling asleep but 5 hours later I was struggling to stay asleep. I couldn't take Benadryl or sleeping pills because I was working on a tugboat and would often have to get up and work in the middle of my sleep time. To effectively take it to prevent mid-night restlessness don't take it before you go to bed, take it when you wake up in the middle of the night, I believe it's effects wear off after just 2-3 hours with the normal pills. I am not a doctor but this is how I got it to work for me. I think there are slow release types but I never tried those.

I usually just had to take melatonin for 4-5 days before I established a good cycle. I forget what the recommendations are about prolonged use.

 

[Poser]

How many MG's of Magnesium would you suggest/are you taking?

Thanks for the insight on interval training and recovery. I have a fair amount of experience with it, but that was back when I was in my 20's, so recovery probably wasn't as big of an issue as it is now in my mid-30's. My plan would probably be (haven't really laid it out completely) to alternate a full body interval day with some active recovery like a hike, some stairs at a stadium, running on the treadmill to mitigate joint wear and tear, etc. 3 days of interval with 3 days of active recovery and 1 complete rest day should be plenty wouldn't you think?

I've been taking 400mg before bed. Sometimes, I'll take another one if I get up i the middle of the night to piss.

As far as schedule, I've been doing a similar one: 3 on, 1 off, 2 on 1 off.
One of those off days will often be an active recovery workout but not always. I try to keep it to how I'm feeling rather than sticking to a rigid plan. I'll do 3-4 days off every couple of weeks -either planned or forced by schedule (out of town etc).

 

[2hand]

Id take a look at this guy and his work.

http://www.sleepcocktails.com

http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2015/12/sleep-cocktail-ingredients/

Great interview with Ben Greenfield that talks about sleep and things that prevent it. Very informative!

 

[elkguide]

Consistency has helped me. That is going to bed at the same time every night.
Sounds like you are heading in the right direction by paying attention to what you put in and do to your body, which is great.

 

[5MilesBack]

In early 2011 I started waking up every night. Before that I would sleep through the night every night without fail. I wasn't really working out, hadn't changed my diet or schedule, and everything seemed as normal as it always was........just started waking up, and many times in a high state of anxiety (like when you wake up from a nightmare).

This lasted four years. Odd thing was, if I had to guesstimate I'd say that about 75-80% of the time it was exactly 3:23 on my clock when I'd wake up.........for four years. Didn't matter what time I went to bed.......0323 wake up time. I tried the melatonin, the magnesium, zinc, teas, just about everything. Nothing did anything to help. Went to several doctors because several other symptoms started showing up as well. One doctor said I had just about every symptom of heavy metal poisoning, but they never could get a sample of anything that showed that.

Still have no idea what caused it, but over the last year it has slowly gone away and some nights I'll sleep through the entire night. Other nights I'll still wake at 0323, but can get right back to sleep. Other nights I'll wake a different time but still close to 0323.

Ya, that 4-5 hours sleep a night got really old, really fast.

 

[Murdy]

Regarding Melatonin, my Mom has had sleep problems throughout her life, she tried it, and, while it did help her sleep, she was having very vivid dreams and the sleep she was getting was not the most restful. It can affect different people different ways, and it's a good idea to be aware of the possible side effects, it took her a while to figure out what was going on.

 

[Bubblehide]

I get some pretty sever muscle cramps that wake me up, I subsequently wake my wife from my screaming, literally they are that severe. I take Magnesium for it, and don't have any issues, as long as I take magnesium nightly, 800mg, two pills. The beneficial side effect is that they make me a slight bit drowsy, and take the edge off, making it natural to just fall asleep. It does leave me a tad groggy in the mornings, but not a big deal and nothing a cup of coffee doesn't take care of.

 

[elkguide]

I get some pretty sever muscle cramps that wake me up, I subsequently wake my wife from my screaming, literally they are that severe. I take Magnesium for it, and don't have any issues, as long as I take magnesium nightly, 800mg, two pills. The beneficial side effect is that they make me a slight bit drowsy, and take the edge off, making it natural to just fall asleep. It does leave me a tad groggy in the mornings, but not a big deal and nothing a cup of coffee doesn't take care of.

Often muscle cramps are caused by lack of fluids. WATER. WATER. WATER. ( and then some more)

 

[Bubblehide]

Often muscle cramps are caused by lack of fluids. WATER. WATER. WATER. ( and then some more)

Yep, I'm well aware of that, that is not my issue.

 

[elkyinzer]

Lots of stuff can screw with your circadian rhythms from having to piss to working in artificial light all day, right? Do you notice any patterns of getting a full night sleep?