Patagonia (please read)

[atomicathlete]

Interesting...

 

[jakelogsdon]

Politics aside, Patagonia is building systems for the DOD, and from what I've heard from a few west coast team guys is that their product quality is straight shit. They are begging for their CRYE gear back. If they cant build decent combat apparel, I don't want their stuff on me in the backcountry, regardless of their views.

 

[OakStuddedAcres]

How about north face, arcteryx, outdoor research, Rab, etc.

Is there an easy way to see where each company stands?

 

[bigbaddad71]

How about north face, arcteryx, outdoor research, Rab, etc.

Is there an easy way to see where each company stands?

Some are easier than other, to determine their stance.. Others hide very well.. Look at Non-profit partners and the like..

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[bigbaddad71]

How about north face, arcteryx, outdoor research, Rab, etc.

Is there an easy way to see where each company stands?

Here's some info on Arcteryx.. Look into the grant recipients and their missions..

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[JayTx]

Some folks on here say live and let live thats fine until they come to your back 40 and bring in outside influences to determine what you can and can't do. I try and be vigilant where I buy gear trying to use US companies when I can and certainly stay away from any anti hunting companies if at all possible. Its time for hunters to draw a line in the sand and say enough or in a generation or two things may look very different for hunters and not in a good way.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

Some folks on here say live and let live thats fine until they come to your back 40 and bring in outside influences to determine what you can and can't do. I try and be vigilant where I buy gear trying to use US companies when I can and certainly stay away from any anti hunting companies if at all possible. Its time for hunters to draw a line in the sand and say enough or in a generation or two things may look very different for hunters and not in a good way.

Someone gets it.

"Wait, now they did an international petition on 'trophy deer hunting' in the midwest and it's gonna be illegal to hunt whitetail next year unless you're native american? Maybe we should talk about this one..."

Nope, live and let live remember? At least everyone is entitled to their opinion that it sucks not being allowed to hunt a healthy population in your backyard!

To clarify once more I don't really care about a companies "stance" on hunting. I just assume as a rule of thumb basically all backpacking/mountaineering companies might be ok with me shooting a deer or elk in their jacket but would probably have an issue if I was wearing it in a picture holding a dead wolf...I can't see Rinella in the same situation making a public statement saying that while he supports meat hunting he doesn't support "trophy predator hunting," if he did maybe I would sell my FL gear and go back to that cotton t-shirt in a rainstorm but I wouldn't really care if my buddies continue to support them. If Rinella was in my backyard actively lobbying against legal hunting, using FL dollars to do so and successfully stripping my rights away on the other hand I would probably burn it all and highly recommend my friends and associates to vote wisely with their dollar.

 

[alexanderg23]

To me the answer is maybe not. Especially with how close they are to BHA, which is taking some serious heat right now, rightfully so.

Is FL good to buy? Being owned by Meateater who is owned by Chernin

 

[JayTx]

Someone gets it.

"Wait, now they did an international petition on 'trophy deer hunting' in the midwest and it's gonna be illegal to hunt whitetail next year unless you're native american? Maybe we should talk about this one..."

Nope, live and let live remember? At least everyone is entitled to their opinion that it sucks not being allowed to hunt a healthy population in your backyard!

To clarify once more I don't really care about a companies "stance" on hunting. I just assume as a rule of thumb basically all backpacking/mountaineering companies might be ok with me shooting a deer or elk in their jacket but would probably have an issue if I was wearing it in a picture holding a dead wolf...I can't see Rinella in the same situation making a public statement saying that while he supports meat hunting he doesn't support "trophy predator hunting," if he did maybe I would sell my FL gear and go back to that cotton t-shirt in a rainstorm but I wouldn't really care if my buddies continue to support them. If Rinella was in my backyard actively lobbying against legal hunting, using FL dollars to do so and successfully stripping my rights away on the other hand I would probably burn it all and highly recommend my friends and associates to vote wisely with their dollar.

Lets look at what's happened. Grizzly hunting banned. Now they are wanting more predator hunting banned, correct? What does everyone think is next? These folks never stop moving the chains very long.

 

[ledflight]

Interesting discussion all. Do we have evidence on the Open Space Institute? I haven't found a hunting policy position from them but the do mention it in their releases in a positive way.
Examples:

"Watch the new film "Saving Woods for Water" on how hunting and fishing clubs are preserving land for clean water; plus recent conservation saves and much ... "

and

"The Joint Venture conveyed the bulk of the Lundy property in 2002 to the State of New York. “The Lundy property is an exceptional resource that includes 6 miles of the Vernooy Kill, a major cold water trout stream. Thanks to the State of New York, the land we protected is now available to the public for hunting, camping and other outdoor pursuits,” said Joe Martens, President of the Open Space Institute. "

Open Space Institute: Land for People, for Wildlife. Forever.

Over the past 40 years, OSI has helped save millions of acres for clean water, climate protection, recreation, habitat, and healthy communities.

www.openspaceinstitute.org

 

[Lowg08]

No, the person who trapped a mouse to utilize the hide would be a trapper - opposite of your definition of a wolf hunter.

Did natives of the North American continent actively hunt predators strictly for management purposes? I'm ignorant on this subject and genuinely interested.

No not actually. they only took what they needed and did not abuse the land. To think they exercised predator management is absurd. The introduction of white men and their greed is what wipes out most population of many species in many areas.

 

[ledflight]

Many species in the Americas we hunted to extinction by the pre Columbian peoples. Aborigines in Australia also accomplished this

 

[Lowg08]

The pre Columbian notion may be partially correct dependent on how old you actually feel the earth is. The fur trade and colonization depleted many species trying to feed a growing nation. There will always be fingers to point and different perspectives in history books. Just depends on who writes them. I know we must vote with out dollar but realistically will not buying a 50 dollar shirt stop their campaign

 

[sneaky]

There's hardly a there there, imo. Its founder hunts and fishes, they makes great gear for fishing, and the company absolutely hemorrhages cash into protecting public lands, including areas where we all hunt and fish. Hell, Patagonia even designs specialized combat gear for US Special Operations Forces.

Sure, it's disappointing when the actions of some associates or locations don't line up with my own values. But even if they're not absolute hunting fanatics, their conservation work benefits us in huge ways.

But I tend to be more of a pragmatist, and value that their gear is top-notch, that they stand behind it and repair it at no cost to you, and that they're an American company paying their workers a good wage. For me, Patagonia's values and initiatives are close enough to my own, even though it's not lock step with everything I believe.

We can balkanize anything...it's quite fashionable these days to insist on some weird form of unadulterated allegiance to what we want to hear. Some companies are genuine when they cater to that. Others could care less but know if they pander to you, you'll buy their $hit fine products.

All of the Patagonia gear I've seen is made overseas. How's that paying a good wage? On that front they're no different than any other corporate entity. Pay low wages overseas, import, charge big money, make a big profit. They may pay their employees stateside a decent wage but that comes on the back of someone else overseas. I could care less about Patagonia, it's a status symbol for high school and college kids these days.

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[brsnow]

All of the Patagonia gear I've seen is made overseas. How's that paying a good wage? On that front they're no different than any other corporate entity. Pay low wages overseas, import, charge big money, make a big profit. They may pay their employees stateside a decent wage but that comes on the back of someone else overseas. I could care less about Patagonia, it's a status symbol for high school and college kids these days.

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I am too old for a status symbol, but I do know I can buy Patagonia once or FL or Sitka 2-3 times. I prefer buying once.

 

[Lowg08]

I was in REI yesterday and found many items applicable to hunting at a lower cost

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

No not actually. they only took what they needed and did not abuse the land. To think they exercised predator management is absurd. The introduction of white men and their greed is what wipes out most population of many species in many areas.

Hmm really? Is this something you've researched at all or just an assumption based on Disney movies? There are sites of buffalo jumps where the sheer mass of decomposing carcasses that weren't eaten combusted and scorched the hillsides. They also wiped each other out on a regular basis through tribal warfare, much of that was over hunting territory. All predators practice some form of predator management, we just keep count now

 

[Lowg08]

Actually I was going to college for a history major and I’m part Indian. I dropped college for a pay check. Thankfully teaching history doesn’t pay much. I’ve researched most tribes and even done my 5 grade paper on the Sioux tribe. I can email it if you like.

 

[Lowg08]

Also the plains Indian known for the buffalo jump used every part of the buffalo. Even made glue from the hooves.

 

[Dos Perros]

They didn't use every part of every buffalo, tho.