2 lost elk and conclusions.

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

thanks for taking the time to share. these are experiences that anybody can draw vital information from when choosing a weapon, caliber, cartridge and bullet construction for north americas toughest trophy. elk are no joke and i still will never forget the first time i walked up to an expired mature bull. incredible, enormous, absolute power. cheers to always trying to be better

All great info. 100% agreement with always looking for improvement, large or small.

Two things many of us can improve on, myself included, are:
1) Stay in the scope after the shot and chamber a new round. Re-acquire the animal even if it’s down on the ground. Wait and be patient. If it’s big and tough, wait longer. Don’t be afraid to turn the magnification down (especially when hunting solo).
2) Shoot it again if it stands back up or is moving. Don’t be afraid to shoot an animal if it’s on the ground and still showing signs of life.

Repeat steps 1 & 2 for as long as necessary.

Folks would recover more animals with this. Much easier with two or more folks but doable with one.

 

[roosiebull]

Lots of conflicting info for a newbie hunter here.... I just got a 300 wsm I haven't even fired and am now looking at something a little nicer for blacktail and deer. The company I'm looking at has 6.5 prc and 300 prc as options. I feel like the 6.5 is too small and the 300 prc too big for the mostly deer hunting I will be doing. Decisions...

a good friend of mine has a 6.5prc, and that's been the only rifle he's shot in the past 3 years, and has killed a couple bears and a buck and bull each year with it... only one elk was under 600yds, the other 2 were within 50yds of 700yds... only one that wasn't DRT was the one he shot at 120yds. it didn't go anywhere, but he did send a couple rounds at it before it fell. the 2 longer shots the rug was pulled out from beneath them. he's been liking the ELD-X for it. last year i took him blacktail hunting, we found a buck bedded at 240-ish yds, i was watching through my binos on the tripod, i asked where he was going to shoot it... buck was facing us bedded, he said he was going to shoot it in the nose.... he centered the nose

it always comes back to the shooters actual ability... the PRC has treated him well, and he has had several people shoot deer and elk with his rifle, and it's been a gem for making stuff dead quick. if you aren't recoil sensitive, i don't think the 300prc has a downside.... if you shoot a tougher bullet for deer, it will be as clean as most "blacktail cartridges" and if not, it won't be much worse... the most messy ones i have seen were soft bullets out of a 243... i have seen some nasty bloodshot messes with them... so many bullet options these days, we can use a big boomer and it won't be worse than many traditional deer cartridges with softer bullets.

my buddy has not body shot a deer with his 6.5prc, everything has been head or neck, which keeps the edible parts as clean as can be. i shoot the gender bender (6.5 creed) and don't have the ability to confidently shoot one in the head or neck over 250yds, so i shoot more traditional angles most of the time.... he's talking about getting a 300prc (may have ordered one already) and he will have less waste with that rifle most times than i will with the creed.... lots of variables

i used a 7 rem mag for several years for everything, shot placement and projectile choice was more of a variable than the cartridge. i don't elk hunt with a rifle, so i like the 6.5... haven't shot my 7 rem mag since getting my 6.5... not really recoil sensitive, but i prefer less, haha

 

[roosiebull]

But, I am a magnum fan when it comes to elk. My wife and kids shoot magnums at elk comfortably. All have died. You can't argue the that.

i have had the same experience with non magnums.... i have only seen one elk rifle shot that wasn't recovered, it was a shoulder shot with a .308 and 150gr core-locts i believe... knocked the bull down, stayed down, went over there... no elk. they killed that bull a couple days later, bullet was high knuckle/base of scapula ridge.

besides that, i can't think of one that made it over 50yds besides one shot with a 12gauge with some poor shot placement. i take less experienced hunters most of the time, not shooters, and usually .270's, 6.5's, and 7mm-08's.... just a couple magnum shot elk i have witnessed. if the first shot is on point, they usually stand there dazed and become target practice until they tip over... maybe not the "fall faster than gravity" like a big magnum with a high shoulder shot, but the end result is the same... they almost always die in their tracks or close to it.

i took a 16yr old girl to kill her first elk last year, she was shooting my 6.5 creed with accubonds, first shot was back of lungs, took a couple steps, follow up shot was frontal, bullet went through the whole body, and completely blew up the femur... that even surprised me. she will be shooting her second elk with my rifle shortly, and hopefully my wife, i'm shooting terminal ascents now, and look forward to see how they do on elk. we keep the shots close and easy, and results are always excellent.... i wouldn't want either of them trying to shoot an elk with my 7 rem mag, especially if a follow up shot is needed...

 

[Hunterbug]

Lots of conflicting info for a newbie hunter here.... I just got a 300 wsm I haven't even fired and am now looking at something a little nicer for blacktail and deer. The company I'm looking at has 6.5 prc and 300 prc as options. I feel like the 6.5 is too small and the 300 prc too big for the mostly deer hunting I will be doing. Decisions...

Your 300 WSM will work just fine for deer. Especially if you reload. You can load a 150gr bullet at 3000 and be golden.

 

[Schroedernd]

Your 300 WSM will work just fine for deer. Especially if you reload. You can load a 150gr bullet at 3000 and be golden.

Just bought a sako 85 300wsm and razor lht 4.5-22x50 and then the wife says you should've bought a semi custom to treat yourself. Now looking a seekins havac element and proof research Elevation mtr. Caliber choicea limited to 6.5 prc or 300 prc

 

[Hunterbug]

Just bought a sako 85 300wsm and razor lht 4.5-22x50 and then the wife says you should've bought a semi custom to treat yourself. Now looking a seekins havac element and proof research Elevation mtr. Caliber choicea limited to 6.5 prc or 300 prc

In that case by all means, but another gun! Having just gotten a new gun over the summer and dealt with the ammo stuff, I'd say find that first. I got lucky and found some but they wanted $60 for 25 pieces of brass online.

 

[Schroedernd]

In that case by all means, but another gun! Having just gotten a new gun over the summer and dealt with the ammo stuff, I'd say find that first. I got lucky and found some but they wanted $60 for 25 pieces of brass online.

I have to sell this one first is the caveat...

 

[Bad habit]

This year because I didn't draw any limited entry elk tags (love hunting rut crazed big bulls) I was helping an outfitter friend with his hunters. The first evening we had a hunter who was new to elk hunting in an area we had seen elk that morning. As we watched a sage clearing I continued quietly coaching the hunter that elk live in the bottom third of their body and try to place bullet close behind the front leg. About an hour before sundown a good bull stepped out closer than we were expecting at 160yds. The hunter was shooting off of sticks and had taken time to get comfortable. The hunter asked us if this was a good bull and we said to shoot when we stop it. I cow called and the bull locked up quartering slightly toward us.
At the shot the bull started moving to our left stumbling. After it went about 30 yds I stopped it with a cow call, the hunter shot again missing high left. The elk then turned back and was hit with the 3rd shot which sounded like a gut shot and the fourth shot was a miss. He then made it back into the quakies and the thick brush. I started having a crappy feeling and after 2 days we gave up the search. The hunter was using a .270 with 140 grain mono bullets.
The second troubling experience happened to an experienced hunter in camp who is also a great guide. After 17 years he drew a great tag and spent the summer patterning an incredible bull. On day 5 the bull finally presented a shot at a bit over 400 yds. At the shot the bull fell, got up, fell, got up into the brush and you guessed it was never seen again. My friend passed on numerous other bulls to concentrate on finding the wounded bull. At seasons end all he had was tag soup. The rifle he used was a .270. The guy handloads and is a good shot.
These 2 experiences caused me to reflect on my years of shooting elk and what conclusions I could draw to prevent problems again. Understand these are personal opinions I plan to follow and I realize many people will have different opinions, not looking for an argument. First- I will be adamant to hunters about where to hit elk, bottom third behind front leg on a broadside. Second- I will personally hunt with nothing smaller than my 7mm magnum with 160 grain or heavier lead bullets. After this year I may try 175 gr Nosler partitions. Third- I will limit my self to no shot longer than 400 yds and then only if I can shoot prone over a pack. The best bull I have ever shot at was facing me at 220 yds. I was sitting but wasn't using a rest. He fell at the shot and when I had worked my way over to him through the brush he was gone. My rifle was a 270 with a mono copper bullet. I am the one that pulled the trigger and the lost bull was my fault. It had taken 12 yrs to draw that tag.
This post is a little long but I hope it might help some new hunters. I realize other hunters have different ideas, do what's right for you.

Good advice, bottom third behind the shoulder, keep shooting till they stop moving. Elk are tough for sure, but they are not tougher than a double lung or heart shot. They can still go a long way shot correctly. Always keep looking.

 

[hobbes]

Strange, but yet you hunt them with a bow. And yes it is my preferred method also, but it has thought me it’s more about shot placement and getting close to the animals, that lead to a successful recovery.

I've responded to this before and won't be drawn into this crap anymore beyond this post. If you shoot a bow this shouldn't require an explanation.

 

[Rich M]

so we have bullet construction and shot placement. folks regularly kill elk w 243 so anything bigger will work.

sometimes things happen. Folks have bad experiences with all kinds of bullets and its up to us to choose the one we prefer.

just keep shooting til its dead when you can.

this seems to be a year for lost animals. Seeing lots of lost game, might just be folks telling more stories than normal. i dunno.

 

[Pocoloco]

It is not the caliber. Lots of elk are mortally wounded by larger calibers yet are never recovered. Also, lots of elk are successfully harvested using smaller calibers. Check your ego and use what you can shoot well and consistently. Better to hit the elk in the lungs with your "wimpy" 6.5 CM than hit the elk in the butt with your "manly" 338 WM. Seen too many folks that feel they have to shoot magnums to kill an animal. These same folks tend to be so scared of their rifle that they literally cannot kill a stationary 8.5"x11" piece of paper at 100 yards shooting prone off a bipod and rear rest.

Hunters should try to adjust their shots based upon the bullet they are using. I personally would not take a lung shot using a mono and nor would I use a match type bullet on the shoulder. Sometimes this is easier said than done based upon physical exertion, adrenaline, shot angles, etc.

Not everyone invests the required energy in recovering their animal. You cannot recovery every animal but more folks should try. Walk the woods right after archery elk season and use your nose. It is a sad state of affairs finding those bulls on the ground.

Every animal is different. Some die easily while others refuse to die. Stay on target and be prepared for a follow up shot or two or three. Otherwise you may just be inadvertently celebrating the undue pain and potential miserable death that you just inflicted on your target animal.

Folks should also practice real-world shooting positions more often. I've yet to see a bench, chair, sandbags, lead sled, etc in the woods. I have in Texas...

Exactly, no benches where we hunt and prone shots are hard on the reverse slopes we often find ourselves in. Summer pic is my wife wearing out a rock at 358 yards, fall pic is her holding over the bull she dropped at 293 yards with her 7mm-08. He made it ten feet. Hike, range, call wind, dial solution and shoot rocks, you will get in good shape and become a good real world shooter.

 

[corey006]

.270 is a womens cartridge. Our camp killed 2 elk with 270...never found them until spoiled.

2 holes are better than 1.

7mm or 338 win mag should be a min. for Elk in Timber.

300 win mag, 300 prc, 30 nosler, 300 norma, 300 Weatherby ,300 wsm class cartridges are ideal....

 

[Sled]

.270 is a womens cartridge. Our camp killed 2 elk with 270...never found them until spoiled.

2 holes are better than 1.

7mm or 338 win mag should be a min. for Elk in Timber.

300 win mag, 300 prc, 30 nosler, 300 norma, 300 Weatherby ,300 wsm class cartridges are ideal....

I see these types of hunters in the woods from time to time. They're busy looking to see if they hit while I'm packing out my elk and "women's" cartridge chambered gun.

Fwiw, I'm quite confident I've got you beat on cartridge size. I just don't hunt with it.

 

[Stalker69]

.270 is a womens cartridge. Our camp killed 2 elk with 270...never found them until spoiled.

2 holes are better than 1.

7mm or 338 win mag should be a min. for Elk in Timber.

300 win mag, 300 prc, 30 nosler, 300 norma, 300 Weatherby ,300 wsm class cartridges are ideal....

What ever ! Why not a 338 Lapua or browning 50 cal. for the real men. If you can’t hit them in the “ sweet “ spot, and are relying on caliber and size to make up for it, go big or go home. At least a 460 nitro, 458 for the Jr. Men

 

[Beendare]

Delete

.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Ive seen somewhere close to 70 elk die to an arrow, about 25 to a rifle.

Shot placement of course. I think many guys- both rifle and Bow- shoot on the range in perfect conditions and extrapolate that to their effective range. Nope.

I sometimes help a guide buddy with rifle hunters. Some of those guys are amazing shots, dialing out to 600-700 yds ( as far as we let them shoot on rifle check)
Never fails, the ace at 600 in practice with all day to squeeze it off then wounds a bull at 200.

Field conditions are so much different. many factors there; heavy clothes, uneven ground etc- but numero uno by a wide margin is the mental pressure on the shot.

And its not just buck fever. Its different having to pick a tiny spot on an animal that can potentially move. When shooting on the range, all we have to think about is slowly executing a perfect shot. There is none of the urgency that we have on actual hunting shots.

That urgency cuts some guy effective range by 2/3rds.

.

Folks would be well served doing speed drills and Form's shooting drills. Extremely valuable when it comes time to hunt.

But most folks won't due to the fragility of their egos.

 

[corey006]

NEVER said the .270 wont kill.

BUT if you only have 1 hole....and no blood trail....you might not find the animal.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

NEVER said the .270 wont kill.

BUT if you only have 1 hole....and no blood trail....you might not find the animal.

Better to have one 0.277” hole in the lungs than one .308” hole in the rump because contrary to what most manly men claim, most of them cannot handle recoil.

 

[Stalker69]

Better to have one 0.277” hole in the lungs than one .308” hole in the rump because contrary to what most manly men claim, most of them cannot handle recoil.

Exactly, the spray and prey crowd.

 

[3325]

…….I will personally hunt with nothing smaller than my 7mm magnum with 160 grain or heavier lead bullets…….I realize other hunters have different ideas, do what's right for you.

The OP has seen what he has seen and experienced what he has experienced. I believe he should do what gives him confidence.

But I’ve gone to .270 from ‘06 and found the .270 to be every bit as effective on elk as the ‘06. And that’s using 130s, Barnes or Partitions.

My thoughts about .270 on elk align more with this guide:

270 Winchester for Elk Hunting

The first draft of this post was written over six months ago. Since then, more than seven drafts have been written. When each draft was fi...

montanaelkhunting.blogspot.com