22 Creedmore vs 22-250

[Castmaster]

Anyone have any real world velocity differences between these two with 77gr tmk’s and the same barrel length?

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I would do either, provided a faster twist in the .22-250.

 

[RockAndSage]

Anyone have any real world velocity differences between these two with 77gr tmk’s and the same barrel length?

I don't, but you're looking at roughly 16% more powder in the .22 Creed, so they're definitely not same-same in a different package.

Also, keep in mind that standard twist rate for .22-250 is 1:12, which is great for lighter (55gr range) bullets at those speeds, but you want somewhere around a 1:7 - 1:8 twist for 77gr .22cal bullets.

 

[Castmaster]

I am wondering because I’m going to buy a Tikka T3x stainless and I haven’t decided if I should just buy the 8 twist 22-250 model or spend the extra money and rebarrel to 22 creedmore if I’m gaining a significant amount of velocity.

 

[B23]

The 22 Creed is more comparable, with regard to velocity, to a 22-250 Ackley Imp so unless someone is just standing on the throttle hard in their 22-250, in equal length barrels, the 22 Creed is going to shoot same weight bullet 150 fps +/- faster then a standard 22-250.

Factory loaded 22-250 ammo is pretty easy to get but finding new unprimed 22-250 brass has become nearly impossible while 22 Creedmoor brass is pretty easy to get so advantage 22CM.

The vast majority of factory rifles chambered in 22-250, for years, have been fitted with slow 14tw barrels. Only a few manufacturers have offered faster then 14tw 22-250's. Tikka offers a 22-250 with an 8tw barrel and for a factory offering they're a good choice.

 

[RockAndSage]

I am wondering because I’m going to buy a Tikka T3x stainless and I haven’t decided if I should just buy the 8 twist 22-250 model or spend the extra money and rebarrel to 22 creedmore if I’m gaining a significant amount of velocity.

I think we're in a transition period at the moment - 20 years from now, I suspect .22 Creed with have almost entirely replaced .22-250 in new factory rifles, with .22-250 also becoming more and more something that "granddad" used. Eventually becoming more obscure, like .22 Hornet. Which is/was a perfectly fine cartridge, but .223 has almost entirely eliminated it in the category of things it was used for. There are a lot of advantages beyond velocity the .22CM has over .22-250 as well, including things like brass availability (as mentioned above), ease of cartridge conversion, etc. None of this detracts from .22-250 really at all, but if I had to choose like you're doing, I'd probably go .22 Creedmoor.

 

[B23]

I am wondering because I’m going to buy a Tikka T3x stainless and I haven’t decided if I should just buy the 8 twist 22-250 model or spend the extra money and rebarrel to 22 creedmore if I’m gaining a significant amount of velocity.

Only you can really decide but for me If it was something as simple as changing from one powder to another to gain 150-ish fps IMO that would be significant enough to make it worth doing but to go to the expense of rebarreling from one to the other to gain that extra velocity it would not be worth it.

For a, factory, barrel Tikka/Sako does about the best job making barrels of anyone so you could buy a 8tw Tikka 22-250 then send it off to a smith and they could cut a thread or two off then rechamber it to 22 Creedmoor and put it back on. That would save you the cost of a new barrel and a simple rechamber job like that would probably only cost 2-300 and you could have it throated to whatever freebore you and the smith thought would be best for the bullet/s you plan to shoot. I'd call and talk to Karl Kampfeld w/Kampfeld Customs I bet he'd do it and Karl does great work for a reasonable price not to mention has super fast turn around times on his work.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

I think we're in a transition period at the moment - 20 years from now, I suspect .22 Creed with have almost entirely replaced .22-250 in new factory rifles, with .22-250 also becoming more and more something that "granddad" used. Eventually becoming more obscure, like .22 Hornet. Which is/was a perfectly fine cartridge, but .223 has almost entirely eliminated it in the category of things it was used for. There are a lot of advantages beyond velocity the .22CM has over .22-250 as well, including things like brass availability (as mentioned above), ease of cartridge conversion, etc. None of this detracts from .22-250 really at all, but if I had to choose like you're doing, I'd probably go .22 Creedmoor.

How does the 22 Creed handle light bullets? Even with similar case capacity and caliber they seem to fill entirely different niches. I’d imagine it would run into accuracy issues with throat geometry like it’s siblings when going light for caliber, and also overspinning/ blowup when stepping on the velocity of light varmint bullets at 1/8 twist.

 

[B23]

How does the 22 Creed handle light bullets? Even with similar case capacity and caliber they seem to fill entirely different niches. I’d imagine it would run into accuracy issues with throat geometry like it’s siblings when going light for caliber, and also overspinning/ blowup when stepping on the velocity of light varmint bullets at 1/8 twist.

When you say "throat geometry" are you referring to lead angle or freebore? I don't think they're use a different lead angle for a 22 Creed then they would a 22-250 and if you're referring to FB, well, all factory rifles regardless of twist rate have a pretty healthy amount of freebore and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I think if someone buys a hot rod 22 cal like either the 22CM or 22-250 with an 8tw barrel they're doing so because they plan to shoot heavier range of bullets and if they ever decided to try some light ones IMO it's one of those buyer beware things no different then if someone bought a 14tw 22-250 to shoot lighter bullets then gets a wild hair to try some heavies it wouldn't go well. As they say, these things are like tools and for the best results use the right tool for the job.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

When you say "throat geometry" are you referring to lead angle or freebore? I don't think they're use a different lead angle for a 22 Creed then they would a 22-250 and if you're referring to FB, well, all factory rifles regardless of twist rate have a pretty healthy amount of freebore and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I think if someone buys a hot rod 22 cal like either the 22CM or 22-250 with an 8tw barrel they're doing so because they plan to shoot heavier range of bullets and if they ever decided to try some light ones IMO it's one of those buyer beware things no different then if someone bought a 14tw 22-250 to shoot lighter bullets then gets a wild hair to try some heavies it wouldn't go well. As they say, these things are like tools and for the best results use the right tool for the job.

That’s basically what I’m saying, depending on the barrel they can choose to go either heavy bullets fast-twist longer free bore, or light bullets slow-twist shorter free bore. I’ve heard the other creedmoor calibers don’t do well with light bullets and big jumps to the lands so I’m curious if the 22 creed is able to pull double duty. This is all in regards to the original quote of the 22-250 fading away because of the creed.

I have a 22-250 that’s getting close to shot out, so I’m looking into either rebarreling to the Creed or just getting another barreled action in 22-250. Both are about the same price and I’m leaning towards the rebarrel even if my supply of 40-55gr bullets collects dust for a decade till there’s a use for them.

 

[TaperPin]

I’ve grown up with the 22-250 and hate to see it go, but makers either need to bring out fast twist barrels like Tikka or the 22 Creedmoor will over take it, even with old guys like me. We used to think light bullets are ideal for varmints, essentially the only choice, but at long range wind deflection makes the heavy bullets shine.

If you can swing the custom barrel, group size will probably be smaller, so that’s a big advantage if small varmints are also on the menu. It would be good to know if lighter bullets come apart with the fast twist.

 

[Duh]

I got the tikka 22-250 with a 8 twist. The barrel is slow as hell but shoots very well. I’m in the same boat as you with the 77 TMK. When I find some and get back home in a few weeks, I’ll load some up and report back.

 

[B23]

And to add even more to the debate between fast or slow twist Hornady has their new 62gr ELD-VT that needs an 8tw. What what!!

The O'Neill Ops boys have been using these new 62gr ELD-VT's in 22-250's and they seem to be pretty happy with how well they're hammering coyotes with them. For a bullet that only weighs 62gr they are longggggg.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I got the tikka 22-250 with a 8 twist. The barrel is slow as hell but shoots very well. I’m in the same boat as you with the 77 TMK. When I find some and get back home in a few weeks, I’ll load some up and report back.

What have you shot out of it and what were the velocities?

 

[Duh]

My current load is a 53grain vmax with Lapua brass, win primer, and 34grains of Varget (just on the edge of pressure).

I’ve shot 50 gr vmax’s with superformance and was only getting in the high 3500’s if I remember correctly. I’ve also shot the 50 grain noslers with it too and they weren’t any faster.

I recently shot 62 grain Eld-vts with Varget and was only getting them to 3350fps.

Reloader 15 wasn’t much faster so I loaded up on Varget and called it good. The 53vmax has done everything I’ve asked it to do though so I won’t shy away for predators. I’m not mad at the speeds but it’s definitely not as fast as a lot of other guys 22-250’s.

I’m going to kill a deer or elk with the 77 tmk this year and will probably try staball 6.5 first.

 

[Castmaster]

I got the tikka 22-250 with a 8 twist. The barrel is slow as hell but shoots very well. I’m in the same boat as you with the 77 TMK. When I find some and get back home in a few weeks, I’ll load some up and report back.

Thanks! It would be much appreciated.

 

[Castmaster]

Since id say most agree that it’s very hard to beat factory Tikka barrel accuracy what I think I’m going to do is just run the factory 8 twist 22-250 barrel until I shoot it out or get tired of it then rebarrel to 22 creedmore. I think it’s going to be very hard to beat unless I did a custom chambered barrel rather than something like a Preferred pre fit (which is what I planned on doing in 22 creedmore) or a rechamber job on the factory barrel.

Also since Lapua stopped making 22-250 brass what is the best brass option atm?

 

[Duh]

Since id say most agree that it’s very hard to beat factory Tikka barrel accuracy what I think I’m going to do is just run the factory 8 twist 22-250 barrel until I shoot it out or get tired of it then rebarrel to 22 creedmore. I think it’s going to be very hard to beat unless I did a custom chambered barrel rather than something like a Preferred pre fit (which is what I planned on doing in 22 creedmore) or a rechamber job on the factory barrel.

Also since Lapua stopped making 22-250 brass what is the best brass option atm?

That’s exactly what I’m doing. I managed to find some Lapua brass last year but I was planning on using nosler or hornady.

 

[Castmaster]

That’s exactly what I’m doing. I managed to find some Lapua brass last year but I was planning on using nosler or hornady.

After doing an extensive google search I can’t even find 22-250 brass rn of any brand… maybe 223 is the ticket

 

[RockAndSage]

After doing an extensive google search I can’t even find 22-250 brass rn of any brand… maybe 223 is the ticket

I always start with Ammoseek.com for finding anything ammo or reloading component related - and they only have 1 offering they're turning up right now:

.22-250 Brass

In-stock best prices for 22-250 Brass | Bulk 22-250 Brass - AmmoSeek.com

ammoseek.com

When I can't find what I'm looking for there, I'll go on gunbroker.com - there's at least a dozen or so offerings on there right now: https://www.gunbroker.com/Reloading-Brass/search?Keywords=.22-250&Sort=13