.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[280Ackley]

That’d certainly simplify things.

Bullets matter.

The delivery system matters.

Barrel. Twist. Throat geometry. COAL. Action. Trigger. Stock. Rings. Scope. Etc.

Please read this thread in it‘s entirety from post #1.

A Remington 700 topped with a Leupold in MOA shooting a hammer wasn’t chosen...

He didn’t say he had a Leupold. Just because it’s not a Tikka in a Rokstock doesn’t mean it won’t work. I agree with most all lot of your comments here in this thread but not this time.

 

[Bert01]

That’d certainly simplify things.

Bullets matter.

The delivery system matters.

Barrel. Twist. Throat geometry. COAL. Action. Trigger. Stock. Rings. Scope. Etc.

Please read this thread in it‘s entirety from post #1.

A Remington 700 topped with a Leupold in MOA shooting a hammer wasn’t chosen...

Did you quote the wrong post? What are you talking about? He’s got a 700 he’s planning to shoot 77 tmk’s out of suppressed with a trijicon on top. What part of that requires a post telling him to reconsider? Maybe I just need to go to sleep, I must be getting ornery this late.

 

[Castle Rock]

The only legitimate downside of a Remington is the trigger doesn’t handle icy conditions and for most people that is irrelevant

 

[atmat]

A Remington 700 topped with a Leupold in MOA shooting a hammer wasn’t chosen...

Huh?

 

[BLJ]

Huh?

Kinda what I was thinking as well.

 

[Grundy53]

That’d certainly simplify things.

Bullets matter.

The delivery system matters.

Barrel. Twist. Throat geometry. COAL. Action. Trigger. Stock. Rings. Scope. Etc.

Please read this thread in it‘s entirety from post #1.

A Remington 700 topped with a Leupold in MOA shooting a hammer wasn’t chosen...

I normally agree with you. But what a ridiculous comment. I drank the cool-aide and bought a Tikka. But as long as it shoots, who cares if it's a 700. He's got a reliable scope and good bullets. Heck, he's got way more after-market options, too.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[ElPollo]

I’m no fan of 700s. But if someone starts with a 223 in appropriate twist with good bullet selection and shoots it enough, they are showing good decision making skills and are bound to come around to better and safer actions eventually.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

I’m reading PO Ackley’s 1949 book, “Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders” and it’s just like reading this thread.

The current chapter relates higher 1-shot kill rates on deer and 600 lb burros with a .22-250 than .270 to .30 caliber chamberings. Apparently a few bullets were made with thicker jackets for the .22-250 back then (like TMKs and ELDMs today) to hold the bullets together when fired at 4,000+ fps.

Here’s a PO quote that will ring familiar: “Maybe too much has been said about bullets breaking up. If they kill satisfactorily, what does it matter?

 

[crich]

I normally agree with you. But what a ridiculous comment. I drank the cool-aide and bought a Tikka. But as long as it shoots, who cares if it's a 700. He's got a reliable scope and good bullets. Heck, he's got way more after-market options, too.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

This pretty much sums up that comment.

 

[crich]

I’m reading PO Ackley’s 1949 book, “Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders” and it’s just like reading this thread.

The current chapter relates higher 1-shot kill rates on deer and 600 lb burros with a .22-250 than .270 to .30 caliber chamberings. Apparently a few bullets were made with thicker jackets for the .22-250 back then (like TMKs and ELDMs) to hold the bullets together when fired at 4,000+ fps.

Here’s a PO quote that will ring familiar: “Maybe too much has been said about bullets breaking up. If they kill satisfactorily, what does it matter?

If Im not mistaken didnt he touch on bullet RPMs playing a role in effectiveness on game in that book as well?

 

[clperry]

Please reconsider and start at the start.

Your ‘good deal’ isn’t.

Like many, I have followed and appreciated greatly the knowledge and information this thread has brought and continues to offer. But that comment to his post is very much the reason folks are calling this a cult. It’s a shame really.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

If Im not mistaken didnt he touch on bullet RPMs playing a role in effectiveness on game in that book as well?

He did write about RPMs but was only talking low 200,000s. These were 45-50 grain .224 bullets so they wouldn’t be spinning all that high by today’s standards. He also gave some credence to the hydrostatic shock theory which I think was probably really CNS disruption by fragments. They had no way of measuring velocity down range so there was some theorizing that the bullets had slowed to .22LR speeds but maintained their spin which compensated for low velocity.

I think some of the “why” conclusions were off but the observations (results) were poignant. He talks about killing 600lb animals reliably at 600 yards with 50 grain .22 caliber bullets.

 

[Bert01]

He did write about RPMs but was only talking low 200,000s. These were 45-50 grain .224 bullets so they wouldn’t be spinning all that high by today’s standards. He also gave some credence to the hydrostatic shock theory which I think was probably really CNS disruption by fragments. They had no way of measuring velocity down range so there was some theorizing that the bullets had slowed to .22LR speeds but maintained their spin which compensated for low velocity.

I think some of the “why” conclusions were off but the observations (results) were poignant. He talks about killing 600lb animals reliably at 600 yards with 50 grain .22 caliber bullets.

I’ll have to pull mine out and reread it, thanks.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Apologize if my comments came off as harsh. That was not my intent.

 

[MTN BUM]

That's true, .223 it’ll kill a deer. But why would you use it knowing it’s extremely limited compared to say 270, 7 mag, 308, etc… love my 223 for predator hunting and target shooting though.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Heading out tomorrow to see how the Tikka .223 likes the 77 TMK factory black hills ammo. Will post the results in the Tikka 10 round group thread.

Just realized I never posted up these results from back in January... I'll just show it here.

I had put a new stock (Stockys VG2), new scope (Maven RS1.2), and new rings (UM Tikka Rings) onto my Tikka .223 20" factory barrel 8 Twist rifle. It had been sighted in and shot with around 1,000 rounds of Hornady factory 73 ELDM with that setup with good results.

I was convinced by the data and results from @Formidilosus, @PNWGATOR , and a few others in this thread to switch over to the 77 grain TMK as I'd like to deer hunt with this rifle this year. I bought a bunch of factory black hills ammo using the aforementioned bullet.

First shot as a baseline at 100 yards (interesting deviation from the 73 ELDM). Using the Maven MIL reticle as a ruler as per @Formidilosus sight in method I moved right .4 MIL and took a second shot. I moved it back left .1 MIL and didn't touch it again.

The next 48 shots were in the left square, scope on 8-10ish power, only time between shots was to reload magazines. This was shooting from a folding plastic table with short spartan bipod up front and puffy jacket wadded up as rear rest. Calm winds, 55 degrees.

I have since shot around 1,500 rounds with this rifle setup and ammo, and haven't had anything but excellent results so far.

 

[BigThig09]

If that’s your processing room, I’m super jealous!

It's not my own personal one, but I must say its one of the cleanest processors you'll find anywhere. And they do a fantastic job!

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

Just realized I never posted up these results from back in January... I'll just show it here.

I had put a new stock (Stockys VG2), new scope (Maven RS1.2), and new rings (UM Tikka Rings) onto my Tikka .223 20" factory barrel 8 Twist rifle. It had been sighted in and shot with around 1,000 rounds of Hornady factory 73 ELDM with that setup with good results.

I was convinced by the data and results from @Formidilosus, @PNWGATOR , and a few others in this thread to switch over to the 77 grain TMK as I'd like to deer hunt with this rifle this year. I bought a bunch of factory black hills ammo using the aforementioned bullet.

First shot as a baseline at 100 yards (interesting deviation from the 73 ELDM). Using the Maven MIL reticle as a ruler as per @Formidilosus sight in method I moved right .4 MIL and took a second shot. I moved it back left .1 MIL and didn't touch it again.

The next 48 shots were in the left square, scope on 8-10ish power, only time between shots was to reload magazines. This was shooting from a folding plastic table with short spartan bipod up front and puffy jacket wadded up as rear rest. Calm winds, 55 degrees.

I have since shot around 1,500 rounds with this rifle setup and ammo, and haven't had anything but excellent results so far.

View attachment 699554

Am I understanding your post correctly that you're saying the left square has 48 (forty-eight) shots in that hole?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Am I understanding your post correctly that you're saying the left square has 48 (forty-eight) shots in that hole?

Correct. The entire box in that photo minus 2.

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

Correct. The entire box in that photo minus 2.

Wow.

Reminds me of trying to shoot out the star with a bb gun at the carnival, lol!